2020 Democratic National Convention Discussion Thread (August 17-20)

[storyteller]

@mastermind @tru_m.a.c @storyteller @jayshiggs @Regular_P @smitty22 @Rhakim @King Kreole @Heelish @SubZeroDegrees

what ya'll think of this take

The CARES Act doesn't prove much except that the moderate wing has a lot more leverage than progressives at the moment and that Progressives are infinitely more pragmatic than they ever get credit for. The progressive wing tried to get a temporary UBI in there and got shut down. Jayapal wanted a paycheck guarantee included but was blocked. They didn't set out to hook Wall Street up; they were outnumbered.

He's mixing in some legitimate gripes with a completely oversimplified viewpoint there though. The speed that some progressives jumped on the Morse story despite red flags was pretty weak. I also do understand how someone that doesn't pay attention to actual progressive messaging would read headlines and think they're being superficial...but I also don't think that's the fault of the progressive left.
The Campaign Zero platform was obviously coherent when BLM hit the stage but we still spent five years having to explain what BLM means to people who never checked for the messaging beneath the name. You see a similar refusal to contextualize ideas when it comes to Defund the Police arguments now. People would rather choose an uncharitable interpretation that's easy to argue against (essentially a strawman) than to actually explore the ideas beneath the surface or try to flesh out the ideas.

But the legitimate stuff is sandwiched between a lot of salt though and suggests the nuance of that kinda discussion would get tossed aside. He's got the sound of someone who read one too many mean tweets before he ranted...sidenote: Goliath seems like a good book that I actually had been meaning to check out.

 

[Worthless Loser]

I'm not looking forward to tonight. I don't care to hear from Sally Yates, Chuck Schumer, John Kerry, Lisa Blunt. I have mild interest in AOC but not much. Pres. Clinton use to give really good speeches but the last few years he seemed subpar or average to me. (Bush gave a better speech than Clinton did at the John Lewis memorial which people may disagree with.)

So that leaves Jill Biden. She's pretty average and won't compare to Michelle, but I'm sure she will try to make her speech as heartfelt as possible while highlighting her background as a teacher.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

@mastermind @tru_m.a.c @storyteller @jayshiggs @Regular_P @smitty22 @Rhakim @King Kreole @Heelish @SubZeroDegrees

what ya'll think of this take

I disagree, Dems being a c*nt hair better than Republicans is unacceptable and they have no reason to change because not enough people are willing to shun both parties. But let's take this tweet by tweet.

1. Young people overwhelmingly preferred Bernie to Biden. So yeah, they are likely the future of some party. Hopefully it is a new party and not the Dems.
2. Talking to family members does 0 for the population at large. The right thing to do would be to defund the police, end the grace period for police statements and cut off their access to military weaponry but Biden isn't interested in that. He is all about symbolic gestures and talking nicely not any significant action. He's not fooling me.
3. He's got it completely twisted. Normy Dems don't have a cohesive vision. They say vague bullshyt like 'better jobs', 'higher wages' and then less eloquent things like 'affordable healthcare' which means you still have to pay. Progressives say M4A, $15 minimum wage, federal jobs guarantee. What sounds more coherent to you?
4. We know how it works and we know capitalism in many instances especially life and death emergencies is cold and unfeeling. We as a society that likes to say we are the light on the shining hill can do better. EVERYTHING doesn't have to be bought and sold and the evidence is right in your face. Fire prevention is government run, national security in mostly government run. Rich people get free and discounted shyt they don't even need. Keep it real Matt capitalism isn't the end all be all and you know it. Politicians are just generally greedy and selfish and don't have the intestinal fortitude to do the right thing.
5. Yeah, that's the problem moron. We don't have to defer to Wall St. The people who elect them generally don't want them doing that. But they do it anyway. Our government is no longer representative of the electorate. They do what they and their financial backers want and tell us to eat it. That has a limit, hopefully they find that out before the limit is reached cause then it's anarchy.
6. Yeah unions unfortunately have to follow the $. And any Progressive worth a damn isn't taking any in mass amounts and is likely behind his inferior corrupt counterparts in that regard. Rigged

The politicians and their financial backers have successfully rigged the system against the very people they are supposed to represent. It sucks, this country sucks and things are very likely to get a lot worse before they ever get better even if Biden wins. I vote because I believe it is my duty but my enthusiasm to do so is in the negative integers. Good job to all involved.

 

[FAH1223]

I'm not looking forward to tonight. I don't care to hear from Sally Yates, Chuck Schumer, John Kerry, Lisa Blunt. I have mild interest in AOC but not much. Pres. Clinton use to give really good speeches but the last few years he seemed subpar or average to me. (Bush gave a better speech than Clinton did at the John Lewis memorial which people may disagree with.)

So that leaves Jill Biden. She's pretty average and won't compare to Michelle, but I'm sure she will try to make her speech as heartfelt as possible while highlighting her background as a teacher.

Clinton used to be a good orator, his last good speech was 2012 DNC. But his presidency has aged sooooooo bad. Like cotdamn.

 

[Worthless Loser]

Clinton used to be a good orator, his last good speech was 2012 DNC. But his presidency has aged sooooooo bad. Like cotdamn.

Agreed that the 2012 DNC speech was the last good one. Also, that was probably the last of Clinton's peak star power. Because his star power wasn't the same in 2016 and I think the hatred of Hillary rubbed off on him.

He's been out of office for 20 years now, has a hated wife, me too caused some damage to him, and Obama outshines him in every category so it's expected that he would diminish over time.

 

[re'up]

For Bill Clinton, a Chance to Address a Party That Has Left Him Behind

 

[King Kreole]

@mastermind @tru_m.a.c @storyteller @jayshiggs @Regular_P @smitty22 @Rhakim @King Kreole @Heelish @SubZeroDegrees

what ya'll think of this take

And while it’s not likely the DNC will be must-see TV in the midst of a pandemic and economic crisis, with the least popular and most horrifying president of my lifetime, it could have been compelling, could have been different, could have offered promise — for something new, something changing, something different, something better.

Instead, Democrats have decided to host a convention that feels like the “This is fine” meme in which the Democrats are the dog, and the rooms they will be speaking from are on fire. That isn’t just going to make for boring and regressive programming, it’s going to contribute to the message that the political party many of us are forced to rely on to bring change and advocate for a finer future cannot begin to conceive of how to lay the groundwork for it, cannot begin to imagine, let alone enact, the kind of strategizing that their right-wing counterparts have been masterful at.

In fact, the DNC’s programming this week seems like it’s been designed by people who imagine their own power to be eternal. No one has yet informed them that they only have a minute.

Traister tha gawd

But I see Stoller's point as well. He's frustrated at the lack of materialist thinking he sees in certain leftists factions, and he is correct that there is a fundamental unseriousness and teleological arrogance deeply embedded in the thinking of those factions, namely those that primarily exist in highly online space. But I think Stoller is talking past Traister's article though. Her critique was not petty at all, and the interview with BLM and Eric Garner's mother that Stoller brought up to show Biden and the Democratic establishment are listening to "the left" was laughable. Stoller blames "the left" for not making more robust or substantial demands, but I don't think that's an accurate portrayal of the entirety of the left. Traister is just, correctly, highlighting the deficits of the moderate liberal faction who are actually in charge of the party.

The whole issue is that the left is not clearly defined, which enables people with agendas (a word I use non-judgementally) on both sides to simultaneously claim it is whatever suits them at the moment. What I like about both Stoller's thread and Traister's article is that they are both trying to get their respective targets to become more seriously committed to structural, meaningful, progressive changes. He's pushing the broader leftist movement, she's pushing the Democratic establishment.

 

[King Kreole]

For Bill Clinton, a Chance to Address a Party That Has Left Him Behind

Absolute disgrace this man is speaking tonight.

 

[Regular_P]

I disagree, Dems being a c*nt hair better than Republicans is unacceptable and they have no reason to change because not enough people are willing to shun both parties. But let's take this tweet by tweet.

1. Young people overwhelmingly preferred Bernie to Biden. So yeah, they are likely the future of some party. Hopefully it is a new party and not the Dems.
2. Talking to family members does 0 for the population at large. The right thing to do would be to defund the police, end the grace period for police statements and cut off their access to military weaponry but Biden isn't interested in that. He is all about symbolic gestures and talking nicely not any significant action. He's not fooling me.
3. He's got it completely twisted. Normy Dems don't have a cohesive vision. They say vague bullshyt like 'better jobs', 'higher wages' and then less eloquent things like 'affordable healthcare' which means you still have to pay. Progressives say M4A, $15 minimum wage, federal jobs guarantee. What sounds more coherent to you?
4. We know how it works and we know capitalism in many instances especially life and death emergencies is cold and unfeeling. We as a society that likes to say we are the light on the shining hill can do better. EVERYTHING doesn't have to be bought and sold and the evidence is right in your face. Fire prevention is government run, national security in mostly government run. Rich people get free and discounted shyt they don't even need. Keep it real Matt capitalism isn't the end all be all and you know it. Politicians are just generally greedy and selfish and don't have the intestinal fortitude to do the right thing.
5. Yeah, that's the problem moron. We don't have to defer to Wall St. The people who elect them generally don't want them doing that. But they do it anyway. Our government is no longer representative of the electorate. They do what they and their financial backers want and tell us to eat it. That has a limit, hopefully they find that out before the limit is reached cause then it's anarchy.
6. Yeah unions unfortunately have to follow the $. And any Progressive worth a damn isn't taking any in mass amounts and is likely behind his inferior corrupt counterparts in that regard. Rigged

The politicians and their financial backers have successfully rigged the system against the very people they are supposed to represent. It sucks, this country sucks and things are very likely to get a lot worse before they ever get better even if Biden wins. I vote because I believe it is my duty but my enthusiasm to do so is in the negative integers. Good job to all involved.

I don't see how Progressive can be blamed for problems within the Democratic party when they hold relatively few positions of power. They are trying to pull the party to the left but the numbers aren't there yet. Party leaders consistently shame their ideas too.

 

[NZA]

1. this billy porter stuff needs to be toned down at least until after the election
2. bernie and michelle had solid speeches
3. the never trumper republicans have more power in the democrat party than the left
4. nobody cares about what chuck schumer has to say

 

[the cac mamba]

im actually looking forward to clintons speech fukk anyones purity politics. hes gonna ether trump and im all for it

 

[the cac mamba]

I don't see how Progressive can be blamed for problems within the Democratic party when they hold relatively few positions of power. They are trying to pull the party to the left but the numbers aren't there yet. Party leaders consistently shame their ideas too.

to the same point, the progressives need to drop their massive sense of entitlement

they dont represent the party, they represent a small wing take over congress first, and THEN expect you're gonna have a progressive nominee

 

[AnonymityX1000]

to the same point, the progressives need to drop their massive sense of entitlement

they dont represent the party, they represent a small wing take over congress first, and THEN expect you're gonna have a progressive nominee

They aren't entitled. Most people want money out of politics but centrists and the right don't care. That puts those who go above and beyond the current campaign finance rules at a disadvantage. They represent what people want generally but are stymied by corruption. It's hard to win elections when you are outspent most of the time. They are the opposite of entitled, Centrists are entitled.

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

im actually looking forward to clintons speech fukk anyones purity politics. hes gonna ether trump and im all for it

The gop gonna run with them Clinton photos though

 

[Regular_P]

to the same point, the progressives need to drop their massive sense of entitlement

they dont represent the party, they represent a small wing take over congress first, and THEN expect you're gonna have a progressive nominee

No, it's the opposite like @jayshiggs said. Furthermore, the establishment branch of the Dems has no foresight. That's why these fukks can't maintain any branch of the government because they don't stand for anything and would rather court Republicans than Progressives.

There's a good chance they control all three branches of government after this election (two at a minimum) and in 2022 they will probably get thumped in the mid-terms because they won't push for anything meaningful while in power. That's how this always goes.