90's Rap misconceptions?

[Slim Charles]

With Illmatic you have to separate the impact and influence it had on general hip hop fans and people WITHIN hip hop. Illmatic didn't have that wider impact on the public no or even opened up doors beyond AZ, but you only have to listen to quotes from Tupac, Biggie, Jay, Busta, Prodigy, Wu Tang etc etc. For those in hip hop, soon as Illmatic came out it's impact on his contemporaries was huge. He was THAT guy to all his counterparts in NY at least.

 

[gluvnast]

Da Brat was the first female rapper to ever go platinum. Don't sleep

But if Death Row & Bad Boy are the standards you're using, then I feel what you're saying



Prodigy Reveals Nas’ Illmatic Was A Blueprint For Mobb Deep’s The Infamous (Video)

Once again... they were ALREADY IN THE PROCESS OF MAKING THE INFAMOUS. Saying they heard Illmatic and it inspired them to go push themselves is not the SAME as GETTING PUT ON.

I encourage you to listen to the HAVOC interview from last year that goes into DETAIL on the process of them making The Infamous album, how Q-tip was their mentor and ESPECIALLY the 12:30 mark where Havoc credited STEVE RIFKIN in giving them a 2nd chance. Maybe you do not know what getting "opening the doors" really MEAN. Illmatic again did not OPEN THE DOOR FOR MOBB DEEP.

Havoc Explains What Made Mobb Deep’s The Infamous A Classic - YouTube

 

[gluvnast]

With Illmatic you have to separate the impact and influence it had on general hip hop fans and people WITHIN hip hop. Illmatic didn't have that wider impact on the public no or even opened up doors beyond AZ, but you only have to listen to quotes from Tupac, Biggie, Jay, Busta, Prodigy, Wu Tang etc etc. For those in hip hop, soon as Illmatic came out it's impact on his contemporaries was huge. He was THAT guy to all his counterparts in NY at least.

That we can agree. Nas was well received among his peers. And like you said, the only emcee that he opened the door for because of that album was AZ.

 

[DANJ!]

With Illmatic you have to separate the impact and influence it had on general hip hop fans and people WITHIN hip hop. Illmatic didn't have that wider impact on the public no or even opened up doors beyond AZ, but you only have to listen to quotes from Tupac, Biggie, Jay, Busta, Prodigy, Wu Tang etc etc. For those in hip hop, soon as Illmatic came out it's impact on his contemporaries was huge. He was THAT guy to all his counterparts in NY at least.

THIS... it was an inside thing that impacted other MCs and people who were really diggin' into the music. It wasn't MTV, BET, mainstream radio playlists nshyt... it was mixtapes, college radio, late-night mixshows... that was the base for that album. It Was Written was when everybody else got it.

 

[The Amerikkkan Idol]

THIS... it was an inside thing that impacted other MCs and people who were really diggin' into the music. It wasn't MTV, BET, mainstream radio playlists nshyt... it was mixtapes, college radio, late-night mixshows... that was the base for that album. It Was Written was when everybody else got it.

Dude, "The World Is Yours" was no.1 on Rap City's Top 10 for like months.

"It Aint Hard To Tell" was no.1 too.

At that time, that was as good as it got for real Hip-Hop exposure.

Like, y'all making it seem like it was an MF Doom, Immortal Technique type thing and it just wasn't.

It wasn't Biggie's champagne rap that dominated broke East Coast rap back to the pop charts, but back in '94, being no.1 on Rap City's Top 10 meant that people knew who you were because Rap City was respected, just like The Source giving it 5 mics meant it wasn't just some underground rap record shared on mixtapes and shyt.

I didn't get it off of mixtapes, I watched that shyt on BET everyday and bought it.

I don't even listen to underground/mixtape rap. Have no interest in 99% of it.

Once again... they were ALREADY IN THE PROCESS OF MAKING THE INFAMOUS. Saying they heard Illmatic and it inspired them to go push themselves is not the SAME as GETTING PUT ON.

I encourage you to listen to the HAVOC interview from last year that goes into DETAIL on the process of them making The Infamous album, how Q-tip was their mentor and ESPECIALLY the 12:30 mark where Havoc credited STEVE RIFKIN in giving them a 2nd chance. Maybe you do not know what getting "opening the doors" really MEAN. Illmatic again did not OPEN THE DOOR FOR MOBB DEEP.

Havoc Explains What Made Mobb Deep’s The Infamous A Classic - YouTube

I don't think you know what "opening the doors" means.

Nobody said Nas got them their record deal, but giving them a creative direction and giving them an inroads to an audience, which Prodigy just said, is opening the doors for someone, just like Biggie opened the doors for Jay-Z and all the other East Coast rappers when it came to making it on the pop charts.

None of them nikkaz sold records until Biggie showed them how. He opened the doors.

He gave them a direction and showed them how to tell to their audience.

Mobb Deep's connections to Nas were a big part of the reason they were looked at early on.

"Who Is Mobb Deep?"

"Oh, those Nas' homies from Queensbridge"

 

[DANJ!]

Dude, "The World Is Yours" was no.1 on Rap City's Top 10 for like months.

"It Aint Hard To Tell" was no.1 too.

At that time, that was as good as it got for real Hip-Hop exposure.

Like, y'all making it seem like it was an MF Doom, Immortal Technique type thing and it just wasn't.

It wasn't Biggie's champagne rap that dominated broke East Coast rap back to the pop charts, but back in '94, being no.1 on Rap City's Top 10 meant that people knew who you were because Rap City was respected, just like The Source giving it 5 mics meant it wasn't just some underground rap record shared on mixtapes and shyt.

I didn't get it off of mixtapes, I watched that shyt on BET everyday and bought it.

I don't even listen to underground/mixtape rap. Have no interest in 99% of it.

Yes, on Rap City, Nas was a hit. Also on Rap City in 1994, other acts who got lots of play and did well on their top 10 include Black Moon, Smif n Wessun, Organized Konfusion, Jeru the Damaja, Bush Babees, King Just, everyone from Hieroglyphics, etc... because it was a show geared heavily toward hip-hop fans who listened to more than the surface stuff that was getting play at the time. That's my only point. You know how much play he got on the REST of BET's video shows or mainstream urban radio? Little.

Now *I, personally* didn't give a fukk how much he sold or didn't sell... but like the other artists I named, those numbers and mainstream radio airplay and all that shyt weren't there... despite how much it got played on Rap City or how much love it got in the Source... it was a beautiful time when MFs who really fukked with hip-hop didn't give a shyt about what the rest of the world thought. But there's a lot more of those other MFs than there are of us... the casuals who cared about the radio and all that shyt... THEY weren't rockin' Illmatic.

So no, Nas was not a DOOM/Immortal Technique situation... but his big mainstream breakthrough was not Illmatic. That's all I'm saying. Like Kool G Rap before him, hip-hop nikkas loved him to death, but it didn't translate outside of that. It's literally the reason he took the approach he did with IWW.

 

[gluvnast]

Dude, "The World Is Yours" was no.1 on Rap City's Top 10 for like months.

"It Aint Hard To Tell" was no.1 too.

At that time, that was as good as it got for real Hip-Hop exposure.

Like, y'all making it seem like it was an MF Doom, Immortal Technique type thing and it just wasn't.

It wasn't Biggie's champagne rap that dominated broke East Coast rap back to the pop charts, but back in '94, being no.1 on Rap City's Top 10 meant that people knew who you were because Rap City was respected, just like The Source giving it 5 mics meant it wasn't just some underground rap record shared on mixtapes and shyt.

I didn't get it off of mixtapes, I watched that shyt on BET everyday and bought it.

I don't even listen to underground/mixtape rap. Have no interest in 99% of it.




I don't think you know what "opening the doors" means.

Nobody said Nas got them their record deal, but giving them a creative direction and giving them an inroads to an audience, which Prodigy just said, is opening the doors for someone, just like Biggie opened the doors for Jay-Z and all the other East Coast rappers when it came to making it on the pop charts.

None of them nikkaz sold records until Biggie showed them how. He opened the doors.

He gave them a direction and showed them how to tell to their audience.

Mobb Deep's connections to Nas were a big part of the reason they were looked at early on.

"Who Is Mobb Deep?"

"Oh, those Nas' homies from Queensbridge"

Giving inspiration or motivation is far different from "opening doors for Mobb Deep". That was the claim. It made it act as though without Illmatic there wouldn't be Mobb Deep and that's a falsehood.

Also, Nas 3rd single didn't stay number one for months on Rap City. Stop lying because it most certainly did not. Hell, even the remix summer video came and went. There was WAY too much great hip hop coming through that entire year of '94 and World is Yours wasn't bigger than It Ain't Hard to Tell.

 

[gluvnast]

Yes, on Rap City, Nas was a hit. Also on Rap City in 1994, other acts who got lots of play and did well on their top 10 include Black Moon, Smif n Wessun, Organized Konfusion, Jeru the Damaja, Bush Babees, King Just, everyone from Hieroglyphics, etc... because it was a show geared heavily toward hip-hop fans who listened to more than the surface stuff that was getting play at the time. That's my only point. You know how much play he got on the REST of BET's video shows or mainstream urban radio? Little.

Now *I, personally* didn't give a fukk how much he sold or didn't sell... but like the other artists I named, those numbers and mainstream radio airplay and all that shyt weren't there... despite how much it got played on Rap City or how much love it got in the Source... it was a beautiful time when MFs who really fukked with hip-hop didn't give a shyt about what the rest of the world thought. But there's a lot more of those other MFs than there are of us... the casuals who cared about the radio and all that shyt... THEY weren't rockin' Illmatic.

So no, Nas was not a DOOM/Immortal Technique situation... but his big mainstream breakthrough was not Illmatic. That's all I'm saying. Like Kool G Rap before him, hip-hop nikkas loved him to death, but it didn't translate outside of that. It's literally the reason he took the approach he did with IWW.

Exactly!! Nobody is saying Nas or Illmatic was some indie underground tape. Columbia put money to this project to go big, but it didn't at the time. It was slept on. If this is about 90s misconception that's a huge misconception of Illmatic having immediate impact and influence. It didn't. It had the deserving hype, but it was something that ended up being revered after It Was Written.

And you also right as to why It Was Written was the approach he took. He saw the huge immediate success Biggie had and wanted that. That's when he got with Steve Stout and Trackmasters to redefine his sound and image.

 

[Xerces]

I get your point but most of those people weren't really popping like that. Not on the level of a Death Row or BIG. BONE is about the only one and Em didn't blow up until '99.

And for the record I'm probably the biggest Psychodrama fan on the site. Even copped Buk/Dawreck's limited edition album when it dropped. But those cats, Crucial Conflict, Do Or Die, Dayton Family, etc. was semi-underground. Da Brat was seen as a Snoop clone, nobody took her seriously. Nobody in my age bracket back then, but I was 18 when her album came out.

Fred.

I got that junk too the buk/dawreck limited edition project


Still feeling some type of way, that they still eventually released the album sans a couple tracks on itunes

and triple darkness has a jammin track in the vault 400 pounds of pressure, that I’ve asked dawreck personally when it will get dropped. He said soon. That was like 2 years ago

 

[The Amerikkkan Idol]

So no, Nas was not a DOOM/Immortal Technique situation... but his big mainstream breakthrough was not Illmatic. That's all I'm saying. Like Kool G Rap before him, hip-hop nikkas loved him to death, but it didn't translate outside of that. It's literally the reason he took the approach he did with IWW.

Okay, I feel you now.

But it is important to say that back then, you didn't have to be a pop rapper or super mainstream to be considered successful.

Nas was considered successful & influential in Hip-Hop and that's what mattered at that time. It wasn't an underground or mixtape phenomenon.

As we know, Biggie changed that metric for east coast guys and it even affected Nas

That's why it's kinda hard to have this discussion in 2021 because what's considered "mainstream" & "popular" is so different than what it was in 1994

Giving inspiration or motivation is far different from "opening doors for Mobb Deep". That was the claim. It made it act as though without Illmatic there wouldn't be Mobb Deep and that's a falsehood.

Also, Nas 3rd single didn't stay number one for months on Rap City. Stop lying because it most certainly did not. Hell, even the remix summer video came and went. There was WAY too much great hip hop coming through that entire year of '94 and World is Yours wasn't bigger than It Ain't Hard to Tell.

We already knew Mobb Deep existed before Illmatic.

They just had no direction and as Prodigy said, "The Infamous" wouldn't exist with Nas' influence.

And a lot of people checked for them because of his endorsement, which is opening doors, as I used Biggie opening doors for Jay-z as an example.

Jay-Z's older than Biggie and had a record deal and put out records before Biggie, but Biggie ended up showing Jay how to sell records, i.e. opened doors for him.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

People don't really speak on this like they should but New Jack Swing R&B was humongous in the early 90's -damn near neck to neck with rap

R&B in general was neck and neck with hip hop the whole decade really. In a lot of ways it was bigger. That’s what made that decade so dope. It was the really the peak of black music

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Mobb Deep absolutely gotta push from being from QB. I had no idea who they were before Shook Ones 2. I knew Havoc was on Black Moon’s first album but that was it. Don’t get me wrong Shook Ones was dope as hell when it dropped but hearing they were from the same hood as Nas made people more interested to check them out. CNN got the same treatment. Affiliations were everything back then. So many times you would see a act drop a good single or two and a album or whatever but if they weren’t affiliated with anybody else they tended to come and go

 

[gluvnast]

Okay, I feel you now.

But it is important to say that back then, you didn't have to be a pop rapper or super mainstream to be considered successful.

Nas was considered successful & influential in Hip-Hop and that's what mattered at that time. It wasn't an underground or mixtape phenomenon.

As we know, Biggie changed that metric for east coast guys and it even affected Nas

That's why it's kinda hard to have this discussion in 2021 because what's considered "mainstream" & "popular" is so different than what it was in 1994



We already knew Mobb Deep existed before Illmatic.

They just had no direction and as Prodigy said, "The Infamous" wouldn't exist with Nas' influence.

And a lot of people checked for them because of his endorsement, which is opening doors, as I used Biggie opening doors for Jay-z as an example.

Jay-Z's older than Biggie and had a record deal and put out records before Biggie, but Biggie ended up showing Jay how to sell records, i.e. opened doors for him.

No people checked out Mobb Deep because of Shook Ones Part II. The release of that song and it being banned from MTV which was a big deal sparked people's interests over the controversy and hype of the song.

Again, you are conflating Mobb Deep finding direction/purpose because through hearing their homie's album with "opening the doors". Nas didn't put Mobb Deep on. People didn't start listening to Mobb Deep JUST BECAUSE they heard Illmatic. That's like saying Tragedy Khadafi opened the doors for Nas because Trag's from Queensbridge and Nas found motivation from his music. That's bullshyt logic you are spewing.

And Biggie and Jay-Z is a totally different situation. Biggie didn't "open the doors" for Jay-Z. Jay-Z only wanted to release ONE ALBUM which was Reasonable Doubt. Jay-Z at the time didn't care for rap because he was already making huge money hustling. He and Dame wanted a legit outlet and focus on running a record label. It wasn't until Biggie died that Ja-Z felt an obligation to continue on rapping and fill Biggie's shoes. It took TWO and nearly a half full YEARS until Jay-Z got big. That wasn't because of Biggie who was well dead by that point, but because of hard work and dope music and elevating his own Roc-a-Fella brand. Jay-Z with the help of Dame and Biggs put himself on. Biggie didn't sign him to Undeas like he did with Junior Mafia. Jay-Z wasn't part of Bad Boy. But just because they were CLOSE doesn't automatically mean Biggie "opened doors" for Jay-Z. Especially during that period, Jay-Z's interest was having an one and done album.

 

[gluvnast]

Mobb Deep absolutely gotta push from being from QB. I had no idea who they were before Shook Ones 2. I knew Havoc was on Black Moon’s first album but that was it. Don’t get me wrong Shook Ones was dope as hell when it dropped but hearing they were from the same hood as Nas made people more interested to check them out. CNN got the same treatment. Affiliations were everything back then. So many times you would see a act drop a good single or two and a album or whatever but if they weren’t affiliated with anybody else they tended to come and go

I agree affiliations was huge especially back then. But I going to ask you this question. You said you had no idea who Mobb Deep was before Shook Ones Part II. So my question to you isn't because you heard of that song that prompted you to learn about Mobb Deep?

I ask that because if you never heard of Mobb Deep until you heard Shook Ones Part II, how would you of known where they were from? Or even care to know?

I say this because there were a lot of rappers that tried to capitalize off whom they were affiliated with or what hood they're from. Like when when NWA came out, there were a gang of people claiming they're from Compton or tried to capitalize off of it. But when you hear someone like DJ Quik. And immediately you know he's from Compton, but it's not the reason why someone would check out DJ Quik. It's because his music was too dope regardless where he was from. That's the same with Shook Ones. Many people thought The Infamous album was Mobb Deep's first album. They didn't know anything about Mobb Deep until Shook Ones came out and that's when they wanted to learn who that group was. So my point is that the SONG made Mobb Deep known and the Nas connection was 2nd to that. It definitely not like a Cormega situation where Nas shouted him out on Illmatic and people wanted to learn more about Mega from that.

 

[gluvnast]

As for CNN. That was literally a getting put on because of affiliation. Tragedy Khadafi were their mentor and most people first heard of them through Mobb Deep with the LA LA diss record.