90's Rap misconceptions?

[FreshAIG]

A lot of the 90s on who was culturally more important wasn't just based on a singular hit and record sales alone. Nobody I knew in real life gave a fukk about Paperboy, but he was up for a Grammy in 1994 because he had a hit song. But culturally he didn't rank. The reason guys like Big, Dre, Wu, Bone, Pac, Snoop, Treach ranked highly was because not only did they have sales but nikkas a part of Hip Hop were actually listening to their music. Not just white suburban kids that got them the plaques, but people within the community were bumping them non-stop. In the streets, in the schools, at parties, at clubs, etc...

There's a reason Redman was "Source Rapper of the Year" in 1993 with an album that barely touched Gold. Because during that time frame Redman was culturally the hottest (hottest not biggest) artist at the time in the East Coast. Even if you say "It's biased" and it should've been Snoop (true), but even accounting for regional bias, there were other East Coast acts that sold way more than Redman that wasn't as "hot" as Redman in the streets in real time.

You can't look at the 90s through a post 2003 lens.

 

[Sankofa Alwayz]

Foxy buzz or not, nikkaz knew who Jigga was down there, that’s a fact bruh. He wasn’t some low level nikka like Rampage, come on now

“I make other rappers have doubts”

“I’m gonna live long in this rap game, nikkas know my name! Yo Puffy!”

 

[mbewane]

Mobb Deep absolutely gotta push from being from QB. I had no idea who they were before Shook Ones 2. I knew Havoc was on Black Moon’s first album but that was it. Don’t get me wrong Shook Ones was dope as hell when it dropped but hearing they were from the same hood as Nas made people more interested to check them out. CNN got the same treatment. Affiliations were everything back then. So many times you would see a act drop a good single or two and a album or whatever but if they weren’t affiliated with anybody else they tended to come and go

As a breh from Europe I checked out CNN album only because of their QB affiliation and seeing that they had worked with the Mobb and Tragedy. I knew absolutely nothing about them.

 

[daze23]

A lot of the 90s on who was culturally more important wasn't just based on a singular hit and record sales alone. Nobody I knew in real life gave a fukk about Paperboy, but he was up for a Grammy in 1994 because he had a hit song. But culturally he didn't rank. The reason guys like Big, Dre, Wu, Bone, Pac, Snoop, Treach ranked highly was because not only did they have sales but nikkas a part of Hip Hop were actually listening to their music. Not just white suburban kids that got them the plaques, but people within the community were bumping them non-stop. In the streets, in the schools, at parties, at clubs, etc...

There's a reason Redman was "Source Rapper of the Year" in 1993 with an album that barely touched Gold. Because during that time frame Redman was culturally the hottest (hottest not biggest) artist at the time in the East Coast. Even if you say "It's biased" and it should've been Snoop (true), but even accounting for regional bias, there were other East Coast acts that sold way more than Redman that wasn't as "hot" as Redman in the streets in real time.

You can't look at the 90s through a post 2003 lens.

I forgot about Paperboy

shyt reminds me of songs like Ahmad - Back in the Day, and Skee-Lo - I Wish. they were popular, but it wasn't what I was listening to

 

[FreshAIG]

I forgot about Paperboy

shyt reminds me of songs like Ahmad - Back in the Day, and Skee-Lo - I Wish. they were popular, but it wasn't what I was listening to

"Ditty" lmao

 

[DANJ!]

You can't look at the 90s through a post 2003 lens.

THIS... although I might say that whole "who sold and got Grammys, etc = what mattered in hip-hop" mindset has its roots in the late-90s... once it got to that point where all the mainstream outlets fully embraced hip-hop and was playing/pushing it around the clock,like around '96-'97ish, that's where a lot of even the fans picked that up. Pre-'97, I don't really recall ever talkin' about what went platinum or none of that. That became a talking point during that time period when hip-hop became the highest-selling genre and was selling into the billions. And now in hindsght, a lot of people act like this was always the way the music was measured. It was measured like that by the people who were only paying attention to the radio and the hits... the ones really following this shyt weren't givin' a fukk.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Facts. Not only you had Hip Hop at its most diversified (East Coast/West Coast/Midwest/South) but you also had R&B at its most diverse (Hip Hop Soul, New Jack Swing, and Neo Soul). Then on top of that, House music was at its peak, especially with the shyt coming outta Jersey, Baltimore, and NYC as well as Detroit Techno making noise and spreading its influence to Europe....Then you had Reggae reinventing itself into a more urban and Hip Hop-influenced sound....Then you had Old Skool Jungle, Drum & Bass, UK Garage, and Trip Hop coming out of the UK....Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson still dominating all things Pop....GoGo music going through a crazy renaissance during a good chunk of the decade....Black music influencing some dope ass OSTs to a lotta iconic movies from the 90’s....The South had their own local regional music scenes going on with Yeek/Yeekin’ (ATL), Bass/Booty Bass music (MIA/ATL), Bounce music (NOLA), Jookin/Buckin (Memphis), and Screw music (H-Town)....The 90’s saw Black music at its absolute best, I really wish I was the age back then that I am now so that I could’ve appreciated that shyt more intimately and actively

I’m glad you brought up reggae/dancehall. I forgot how big that shyt got in the 90s. It seemed like after Shabba Ranks blew up the flood gates were open. My big sister would bring mixtapes home. I know some of y’all remember those key chains with the high pitched bomb sound effects. Those sounds would be all over those mixtapes


A lot of shyt blew up. Patra, Beenie Man, Buju, Mad Lion and Super Cat. All of it would get regular rotation on the radio especially on those Friday and Saturday night mix shows. I still die laughing at Puffy’s feature on the remix for Super Cat’s
Dolly My Baby

 

[gluvnast]

Dude, listen to Jay-Z in Original Flavor and then listen to Jay-Z on Reasonable Doubt

One's from 1993, ones from 1996, yet they sound totally different.

what happened?

Biggie

Why does "It Was Written" sound so different than "Illmatic"?

Biggie

That's what it means to "open doors", brother.

Jay-Z is still on some fake Das-EFX type shyt if Biggie hadn't done "Big Poppa" and "One More Chance" and "Juicy" and showed all them nikkaz how to sell records.

Nas would've still been doing Boom Bap type shyt if it wasn't for Biggie.

That's what opening doors means.

Biggie opened the door for everybody on the East Coast to sell records because virtually none of them nikkaz was selling shyt before him in comparison to Snoop, Dre, 2pac, Ice Cube, Ice T, and even Cypress Hill

I don't know what to say to you, Prodigy admitted Nas opened doors for them and you ain't hearin' it.



If you think more people knew Prodigy & Havoc than Nas in 1995, I don't know what to say to you.

You obviously aint watch BET or read The Source, Vibe, or any Hip-Hop centered publication.



THIS!!!!!

Everybody forgets how big House used to be back in the days.



Dude, remember Nas' "Illmatic" suffered from rampant bootlegging, so you can't just go by records sold. That's in any story that has ever been written about the record, how the whole city of New York had the album the year before it came out.

That's why I'm talking as somebody who was actually steeped in Hip-Hop culture at the time.

There's no way in hell that more people on Earth knew who Mobb Deep or AZ were than Nas.

The only reason people knew who either of them were was because of their relationship to Nas.

Prodigy admitted it in the interview I posted and AZ's verse on "Life's A bytch" is one of the most heralded in Hip-Hop history.

You really all over the place now. It's no dispute of how immediately impactful and influential READY TO DIE. In fact that was the WHOLE POINT when you was making the claim about ILLMATIC. Now you are caught being a HYPOCRITE.

That has little to do with what Jay-Z's intention were with Reasonable Doubt. He made it known that was supposed to be his ONLY ALBUM. That rap wasn't going to be his focus. He changed his mind once Biggie was killed and felt like his duty to carry the torch. And still he had to earn his stripes. Jay-Z didn't get to where he was just because he and Biggie were close. The influence and impact of Ready to Die was undeniable, but IN MY LIFETIME VOL 1 was a setback that even Jay-Z admitted because he was trying TOO HARD to be the next BIGGIE. Trying to emulate the Bad Boy sound and everything and caught a backlash from it. So, let's not go there in saying Jay-Z's success was attributed to Biggie... he did it on his own through hard work and persistence.

 

[gluvnast]

Foxy buzz or not, nikkaz knew who Jigga was down there, that’s a fact bruh. He wasn’t some low level nikka like Rampage, come on now

Everyone knew he Jay-Z was. But not everyone was bumping Jay-Z heavily in '96. That's a HUGE difference. I hate to tell you this, but even though he wasn't low level as Rampage... he wasn't at that time in 1996 NOWHERE the level of his peers. It took him until he dropped the Hard Knock Life album to get to that level.

 

[gluvnast]

I forgot about Paperboy

shyt reminds me of songs like Ahmad - Back in the Day, and Skee-Lo - I Wish. they were popular, but it wasn't what I was listening to

When talking about culturally. We have to speak on how HUGE and DIVERSE the WESTCOAST dominance was on every aspect. All of those names you mentioned, all West Coast and Ahmad was actually respected as an emcee back then, but people overlook it because he was a one hit wonder. We can add on Domino as well. And that was indeed part of the problem when you had East Coast publications and media and radio acting as if it was non-existence which sparked a riff. @FreshAIG acknowledged the bias that was going on, but defend that people of hip hop on a cultural aspect knew what's up. And I don't think that's exactly true all the way. there were people from NYC that respected outside their region of hip hop, but I do think many really didn't cared for it like that. We respect and love groups like The Pharcyde and Souls of Mischief, but they weren't getting that same kind of love out East. Especially with the Source. They both gave those albums that we regard today as undisputed classics 3.5 MICS!!! But want to give Apache's (no disrespect for the deceased) GARBAGE freakin' album FOUR MICS that same year. And when youy have bias publications like that, it lead to how people out in New York feeling a kind of way in how they view hip hop culturally in THEIR region only and not universally. And then the animosity of multiple success singles and albums coming from the West that were diverse And it was still all hip hop.

People do look at things retrospectively, but at the moment of the 90's and a huge reason why there was a civil between the two coast was the fact that the west coast emcees were putting in a lot of work, but wasn't getting the proper acknowledgement that they feel they deserve out east.

 

[OGBobbyJohnson]

Great thread

 

[OGBobbyJohnson]

nope, those all got 5 mics in The Source, first time around. They used “broken records” before they had the mics. And before that they just have it a number

I still go back & read old magazine scans reviewing albums from the 90's every few weeks

 

[BmoreGorilla]

As a breh from Europe I checked out CNN album only because of their QB affiliation and seeing that they had worked with the Mobb and Tragedy. I knew absolutely nothing about them.

I remember they popped up outta nowhere on LA LA

 

[The Amerikkkan Idol]

You really all over the place now. It's no dispute of how immediately impactful and influential READY TO DIE. In fact that was the WHOLE POINT when you was making the claim about ILLMATIC. Now you are caught being a HYPOCRITE.

That has little to do with what Jay-Z's intention were with Reasonable Doubt. He made it known that was supposed to be his ONLY ALBUM. That rap wasn't going to be his focus. He changed his mind once Biggie was killed and felt like his duty to carry the torch. And still he had to earn his stripes. Jay-Z didn't get to where he was just because he and Biggie were close. The influence and impact of Ready to Die was undeniable, but IN MY LIFETIME VOL 1 was a setback that even Jay-Z admitted because he was trying TOO HARD to be the next BIGGIE. Trying to emulate the Bad Boy sound and everything and caught a backlash from it. So, let's not go there in saying Jay-Z's success was attributed to Biggie... he did it on his own through hard work and persistence.

I never said Ready To Die wasn't impactful.

What I said was that Illmatic was impactful in a different way than Ready To Die.

Biggie was impactful in bringing East Coast hardcore rap to the pop charts the way that Dre & Snoop were bringing West Coast gangsta rap to pop charts

Jeru, Black Moon, and even Wu had problems with Biggie in '94-'95 because they didn't like the way that Biggie was impactful in making mainstream/pop type records.

That's why Rae & Ghost are clowning Biggie on OB4CL and guess who was the first outside guest ever on a Wu album?

Nas.

Guess who had the Hip-Hop Quotable of the year that came out?

Nas.

Nas was the more culturally respected guy even from East Coast guys who had problems with what Biggie & Puffy was doing with the beginnings of "jiggy" rap.

I never at any point argued that Illmatic was a pop record or a pop success, only that it was considered all-time great from the day it came out (which it was)

And that it was heavily respected within the culture (which it is, was, and always will be)

And it wasn't some obscure "backpacker" or "mixtape" type record.

It charted highly on BET's countdown shows back in the day.

I don't care how many records Jay-Z intended to make, it's obvious that Reasonable Doubt was affected by Biggie's success.

Everything on the East Coast was affected by it.

 

[gluvnast]

I never said Ready To Die wasn't impactful.

What I said was that Illmatic was impactful in a different way than Ready To Die.

Biggie was impactful in bringing East Coast hardcore rap to the pop charts the way that Dre & Snoop were bringing West Coast gangsta rap to pop charts

Jeru, Black Moon, and even Wu had problems with Biggie in '94-'95 because they didn't like the way that Biggie was impactful in making mainstream/pop type records.

That's why Rae & Ghost are clowning Biggie on OB4CL and guess who was the first outside guest ever on a Wu album?

Nas.

Guess who had the Hip-Hop Quotable of the year that came out?

Nas.

Nas was the more culturally respected guy even from East Coast guys who had problems with what Biggie & Puffy was doing with the beginnings of "jiggy" rap.

I never at any point argued that Illmatic was a pop record or a pop success, only that it was considered all-time great from the day it came out (which it was)

And that it was heavily respected within the culture (which it is, was, and always will be)

And it wasn't some obscure "backpacker" or "mixtape" type record.

It charted highly on BET's countdown shows back in the day.

I don't care how many records Jay-Z intended to make, it's obvious that Reasonable Doubt was affected by Biggie's success.

Everything on the East Coast was affected by it.

Your goal posting. Is this about NAS or Illmatic. It's already been discussed and I even stated Nas' stock grew in '95 with his guest verses.

And keep in mind, only Rae & Ghost really had an issue with Biggie. shyt, Meth was on Biggie's album. And Rae & Ghost's only real issue was over the album covers for Ready to Die and Illmatic.

But back to Illmatic. Again, it had the hype but it wasn't revered as it is today. And it's in large part because there was so many east coast albums that came out in 94-95 and Illmatic got lost in the shuffle. Even Keith Murray's album had a bigger splash in '94. Hell, Illmatic came out in April of 94 and to my recollection EVERYONE in the streets was bumping Jeru's Sun Rises in the East album that month later in MAY.