A problem with the left in this country...

[无名的]

If they are, how can they be on the left? That doesn't make sense.

Yes of course the democrats are, that's because they are centrists. The only progressives they have are Sanders and Warren.

Whoa, sorry... I forgot... being on the left precludes you from double talking your constituents by outwardly pretending like you have convictions, but going against everything you stand for when presented with the opportunity to line your pockets behind closed doors.

 

[Loose]

Ain't no damn left in this country

 

[CHL]

Whoa, sorry... I forgot... being on the left precludes you from double talking your constituents by outwardly pretending like you have convictions, but going against everything you stand for when presented with the opportunity to line your pockets behind closed doors.

Well yes of course, please show me which part of a progressive idelogy would agree with this? You seem to be purposely confusing DEMOCRATS with progressives and being on the 'left wing", when we all know the majority of the party clearly isn't. As I've said in another thread, the democrats would be indistinguishable from some of the conservative parties in other developed countries.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Well yes of course, please show me which part of a progressive idelogy would agree with this? You seem to be purposely confusing DEMOCRATS with progressives and being on the 'left wing", when we all know the majority of the party clearly isn't. As I've said in another thread, the democrats would be indistinguishable from some of the conservative parties in other developed countries.

And a lot of people here draw no distinction between leftist ideology and the Democratic party, which makes no fukking sense. The Democrats enact centrist, soft neoliberal policy, then people here are like "fukk LIBERALS! I'M VOTING FOR GARY JOHNSON!

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

LEFTY MOVEMENTS IN AMERICA ARE EASILY DERAILED BY THEIR DESIRE TO APPEAR ALL-INCLUSIVE TO EVERY FRINGE WEIRDO GROUP, BROTHER! LOOK AT HOW OCCUPY WALLSTREET TURNED INTO AN INSANE PANSEXUAL CIRCLE JERK, DUDE!

Yeah, Occupy Wallstreet, what happened to that?

Who were the OW candidates for office? You don't have to organize for and elect Democrats, but you have to organize for and elect somebody. If not, you're just people playing bongos with sleeping bags.

"But they raised awareness of income inequality!"

Yeah ok. We've seen so much action in Washington on income inequality since then. Meanwhile, we're about to have a GOP House and Senate, and possibly a GOP presidency and all they've got is polls about taxing the rich.

 

[gho3st]

The greatest trick corporations ever pulled was to make you believe there was a left and a right

 

[Truth200]

America has a Left?

No, only the underclass, poor and uneducated believe this myth.

 

[DEAD7]

Both sides are have been bought out by corporatist blurring the distinction in Washington, but a left and a right do exist.

 

[OG_StankBrefs]

...and also dey're pussies. Mufukkas stay gettin deebo'd by da "right".

 

[A Real Human Bean]

I agree that the left in the US you refer to hasn't done enough, but as you said, they're fighting a major battle against corporate power and that's had very significant effects on the organizing power of of Americans in general, in a number of ways that I'm sure you're familiar with. Huge attacks on unions, teachers, schools, students, workers in the public sectors and so on, which has crippled the power of the "left".

I was just reading earlier today about the mass government protests in Argentina and Hong Kong, and those movements are largely empowered by the groups I just mentioned. Without a focused, organized effort from these sectors in the US, it will be very hard to achieve significant change.

As far as the organizational might of the Tea Party and similar groups, a large part of the reason their organization is so effective these days is that parts of the business class is now making major efforts to mobilize them and it's been extremely successful.

 

[acri1]

Both sides are have been bought out by corporatist blurring the distinction in Washington, but a left and a right do exist.

Nah.

There's a batshyt crazy far right party (Republicans) and a tepid ineffective centrist party (Democrats).


This isn't something I'm just saying either. In any other first-world country the Democrats would be considered centrist (if not mildly right-leaning) and the GOP would be considered extremely far right.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

As far as the organizational might of the Tea Party and similar groups, a large part of the reason their organization is so effective these days is that parts of the business class is now making major efforts to mobilize them and it's been extremely successful.

That is definitely true. The tea party is a Koch Brothers (and other powerful corporate entities) production in many respects.

But they get the most bang for the buck because they have a dedicated army that will organize for them at a grassroots level. In fact, they're so adept that they managed to pull off upsets in primaries where they were ridiculously outspent, which as we know is very rare. Christine O'Donnell was outspent 2-1 by Mike Castle and she won. The House Majority leader got beat by a goofy ass libertarian economics professor/Christian theologian who got outspent 40-1 because their base put the word out and organized and got rid of Cantor. The point is the right wing's base has shown the ability to pressure Republican politicians to get what they want (even if many of them don't even really understand what they want) and put fear of losing their job in them.

 

[Fillerguy]

The left isn't also in bed with corporations?

Yes but that only evens the playing field and Democrats still talk like neutered lapdogs. Don even ask me how.

 

[NZA]

it's easy to rally one demographic around a small set of ideas that have a lot of synergy. rallying every out-group in america into a dependable force is like herding cats. just because cacs are oppressing all of you doesnt mean you all get along

 

[A Real Human Bean]

That is definitely true. The tea party is a Koch Brothers (and other powerful corporate entities) production in many respects.

But they get the most bang for the buck because they have a dedicated army that will organize for them at a grassroots level. In fact, they're so adept that they managed to pull off upsets in primaries where they were ridiculously outspent, which as we know is very rare. Christine O'Donnell was outspent 2-1 by Mike Castle and she won. The House Majority leader got beat by a goofy ass libertarian economics professor/Christian theologian who got outspent 40-1 because their base put the word out and organized and got rid of Cantor. The point is the right wing's base has shown the ability to pressure Republican politicians to get what they want (even if many of them don't even really understand what they want) and put fear of losing their job in them.

Oh I agree that they're quickly becoming their own force, I just don't think they would've gotten to that level of organization without efforts of the business class to mobilize them.

So it seems to be an uneven comparison to contrast the political power of Tea Party types with the leftist movements we want, as the demographics are quite different, and much of what has historically been the heart of genuine left movements in the US (unions, students, teachers etc.) has been crushed hard by decades of neoliberalization.

Generally, the religious/gun crazy/racist types have proven themselves useful to sectors of the business class, but most good left movements are often in direct opposition to those business interests. As you said, it's largely an uphill battle. It's easy to identify the weaknesses of the real leftist activism, but solving them is a harder task, especially considering how much power we've loss from the business class assault on labor.