A QUESTION FOR THE OLD HEADS.....DID ILLMATIC REALLY HAVE AS MUCH OF AN IMPACT AS PEOPLE SAY.....

[mobbinfms]

how you mention lil kim's 5 mics but not kanye west & bun b getting 5 mics for even lesser albums? especially when it was closer in timeframe to the lil kim chit than those '90s albums.

I do agree that magazine hype was always bullchit and I also agree with what youre saying about these magazines being bias. but you gotta be a str8 shooter when youre calling somebody else out. instead, youre pushing your own propaganda.

and it wasn't just regional bias tho. these mags were moreso into a certain type of rap period. your man kanye west is the biggest beneficiary of that right now. your man lupe benefited greatly as well......and both of them were influenced by illmatic, btw.



adrenaline rush aint no universal classic dog.

you should've just stuck to the bone albums.



well why wasn't e.99 eternal on the list? that's a red flag right there.

also, I heard e.99 eternal got 3.5 mics.

@intellectual recipricol was right when he mentioned how Midwest, south and west albums were getting the cold shoulder.



cmon dog. KENDRICK???

Kendrick didn't influence anybody to do anything that they weren't already doing.

all he did was influence these half-gay internet rap fans to stop focusing on corny rappers. and that didn't last long at all.



popularity is what matters the most. in order to have that type of popularity, you obviously had to have a great impact.

and if you want to talk about changing the game, you already acknowledged him revolutionizing the mixtape scene, which is greater than anything that was done by these other dudes you tryna vouch for.

lil jon didn't change anything. there was a communal effort to push crunk music to the moon. they used this as the vehicle to the start dumbing down the culture. they were championing crunk as being at the forefront of hip-hop before lil jon & esb album even started selling like that. and bone crusher flopped but they were still campaigning for him as well, and had him on that source cover claiming that crunk was running chit.

kanye west is the symbol of what? he never had any clout in the streets.

and are you seriously acting like lil wayne invented punchlines and metaphors? LIKE SERIOUSLY? all he did was hop on the bandwagon when punchline rap was at his peak and applied his own brand of raps that weren't really hot but easily accessible to your average dumbass listener. and he dominated after the game was dead and almost all the real niccas were relegated to the underground. and all these new rappers that were influenced by him because they didn't know any better are a big reason why rap is beyond dead at this point.

I agree there was a regional bias with the Source. @intilectual recipricol just took it too far. Giving the Chronic a 4.5 is not shytting on it.
I can't really comment on the Bone ratings b/c I'm not a fan. To put one of two albums on the top 100 doesn't seem like shytting on them. I mean, The Infamous should have got five and Hell on Earth should have been on that 1998 top 100 list but I'm not gonna sit here and say they were getting shytted on.
I'm trying to explore just how widespread the bias was - so far we got Snoop and the second bone album.

We'll see on whether Kendrick's verse has any lasting impact. I agree that I don't see hip-hop returning to its lyrical glory days - but it was still a call to arms, whether its heeded or not.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

how you mention lil kim's 5 mics but not kanye west & bun b getting 5 mics for even lesser albums? especially when it was closer in timeframe to the lil kim chit than those '90s albums.

I do agree that magazine hype was always bullchit and I also agree with what youre saying about these magazines being bias. but you gotta be a str8 shooter when youre calling somebody else out. instead, youre pushing your own propaganda.

and it wasn't just regional bias tho. these mags were moreso into a certain type of rap period. your man kanye west is the biggest beneficiary of that right now. your man lupe benefited greatly as well......and both of them were influenced by illmatic, btw.



adrenaline rush aint no universal classic dog.

you should've just stuck to the bone albums.



well why wasn't e.99 eternal on the list? that's a red flag right there.

also, I heard e.99 eternal got 3.5 mics.

@intellectual recipricol was right when he mentioned how Midwest, south and west albums were getting the cold shoulder.



cmon dog. KENDRICK???

Kendrick didn't influence anybody to do anything that they weren't already doing.

all he did was influence these half-gay internet rap fans to stop focusing on corny rappers. and that didn't last long at all.

I never heard anyone who actually listened to AR not consider it classic. Thats as universal as it gets. E1999 Eternal is definitely a classic too. Also I dont fukk with kanye like that... College Dropout and Late Registration is about it, I love the Chi, but that nikka is a clown and his music is sufferin because of it. Lupe, F&L deserved all the acclaim it got, I dont remember how TC was rated, but the same fakkets that rated it before are shyttin on the new shyt when the verses remain immaculate. Another reason I dont fukk with these chaunceys ratin shyt.

Glad you agree though. The ratings never did mean shyt. And I never point to any rating other than the vibe I get from nikkaz in the streets, nikkaz I know. nikkaz i bump into when I'm somewhere else. Thats it. I mean really how can I take those reviewers seriously about F&LII when those muthafukkaz grew up on some July 4th shyt, lovin america and shyt... eatin apple pie and singin the star spangled banner at Bears games and shyt. How can I take their opinion on a Pac album seriously? Cant be done.

With illmatic, all I know is I dont know a soul with the album. nikkaz I know claim to have it or to have listened to it, but I been driving since 1996 or 97 (I dont even remember anymore) with nikkaz in the car, and music is a big part of that... Not even once has anyone EVER suggested we listen to illmatic. Not once. No one can let me borrow their illmatic. No one knows a verse on illmatic, but some of these nikkaz claim they have it and listened to it. And I'm supposed to believe these internet nikkaz have it and listen to it?

 

[MINT]

NOOOOOO

 

[MysteryT]

Yes it did. But it took years later for it to actually be recognized and appreciated. Plus you had to be present in that era to understand. It's totally different when you experienced things or felt and had memories of something, compared to just using words to talk about it now.

 

[mobbinfms]

I never heard anyone who actually listened to AR not consider it classic. Thats as universal as it gets. E1999 Eternal is definitely a classic too. Also I dont fukk with kanye like that... College Dropout and Late Registration is about it, I love the Chi, but that nikka is a clown and his music is sufferin because of it. Lupe, F&L deserved all the acclaim it got, I dont remember how TC was rated, but the same fakkets that rated it before are shyttin on the new shyt when the verses remain immaculate. Another reason I dont fukk with these chaunceys ratin shyt.

Glad you agree though. The ratings never did mean shyt. And I never point to any rating other than the vibe I get from nikkaz in the streets, nikkaz I know. nikkaz i bump into when I'm somewhere else. Thats it. I mean really how can I take those reviewers seriously about F&LII when those muthafukkaz grew up on some July 4th shyt, lovin america and shyt... eatin apple pie and singin the star spangled banner at Bears games and shyt. How can I take their opinion on a Pac album seriously? Cant be done.

With illmatic, all I know is I dont know a soul with the album. nikkaz I know claim to have it or to have listened to it, but I been driving since 1996 or 97 (I dont even remember anymore) with nikkaz in the car, and music is a big part of that... Not even once has anyone EVER suggested we listen to illmatic. Not once. No one can let me borrow their illmatic. No one knows a verse on illmatic, but some of these nikkaz claim they have it and listened to it. And I'm supposed to believe these internet nikkaz have it and listen to it?

So you base your opinions off anecdotal evidence, the least reliable form of evidence.

 

[Wacky D]

So you base your opinions off anecdotal evidence, the least reliable form of evidence.

so what are magazine ratings then?

I agree there was a regional bias with the Source. @intilectual recipricol just took it too far. Giving the Chronic a 4.5 is not shytting on it.
I can't really comment on the Bone ratings b/c I'm not a fan. To put one of two albums on the top 100 doesn't seem like shytting on them. I mean, The Infamous should have got five and Hell on Earth should have been on that 1998 top 100 list but I'm not gonna sit here and say they were getting shytted on.
I'm trying to explore just how widespread the bias was - so far we got Snoop and the second bone album.

We'll see on whether Kendrick's verse has any lasting impact. I agree that I don't see hip-hop returning to its lyrical glory days - but it was still a call to arms, whether its heeded or not.

bone is a group that deserves more than one slot on a top 100 albums list. come on man.

and "hell on earth" is no "e.99 eternal".

and yea, theres a lot more albums I can name but Im not really trying to go off-topic. I almost forgot the topic already. plus im pro-illmatic in this discussion.

you missed the point concerning the Kendrick comment. the point is lyricism never left. and Kendrick found out the hard way. he didn't make anybody step anything up. all the rappers that chitted on him, this was just another walk in the ballpark to them. this is why I be telling dudes on here to stop listening to cornball raps.

I never heard anyone who actually listened to AR not consider it classic. Thats as universal as it gets. E1999 Eternal is definitely a classic too. Also I dont fukk with kanye like that... College Dropout and Late Registration is about it, I love the Chi, but that nikka is a clown and his music is sufferin because of it. Lupe, F&L deserved all the acclaim it got, I dont remember how TC was rated, but the same fakkets that rated it before are shyttin on the new shyt when the verses remain immaculate. Another reason I dont fukk with these chaunceys ratin shyt.

Glad you agree though. The ratings never did mean shyt. And I never point to any rating other than the vibe I get from nikkaz in the streets, nikkaz I know. nikkaz i bump into when I'm somewhere else. Thats it. I mean really how can I take those reviewers seriously about F&LII when those muthafukkaz grew up on some July 4th shyt, lovin america and shyt... eatin apple pie and singin the star spangled banner at Bears games and shyt. How can I take their opinion on a Pac album seriously? Cant be done.

With illmatic, all I know is I dont know a soul with the album. nikkaz I know claim to have it or to have listened to it, but I been driving since 1996 or 97 (I dont even remember anymore) with nikkaz in the car, and music is a big part of that... Not even once has anyone EVER suggested we listen to illmatic. Not once. No one can let me borrow their illmatic. No one knows a verse on illmatic, but some of these nikkaz claim they have it and listened to it. And I'm supposed to believe these internet nikkaz have it and listen to it?

ur from Chicago. of course everybody considers "adrenaline rush" a classic there.

I apologize for penning kanye on you.

illmatic is a legit goat album candidate tho dog. illmatic was always ILLMATIC.

 

[ucanthandlethetruth]

41 nikkas said it did have the impact and that's 67% of the vote
cuz your gawds Lupe, Jay and Pac were all Illmatic/Nas stans?
Illmatic inspired 2Pac is his recording of Me Against The World
"While working as a journalist in 1994, Hampton covered three court cases involving Tupac. Around this time, she received an advance-copy of Illmatic and immediately dubbed a cassette version for Tupac, who became "an instant convert" of the album. The next day, she writes, Tupac "arrived in his assigned courtroom blasting Illmatic so loudly that the bailiff yelled at him to turn it off before the judge took his seat on the bench."

Lupe after hearing Illmatic
"So I puts "Illmatic" inside the CD Walkman, strap on the headphones and proceeded to have my life changed forever...it became my soundtrack for a time...all day everyday, everywhere...along with "IWW"

Jay on "A Star is Born"
"I had the Illmatic on bootleg that shyt was so ahead, thought we was all dead"
Jay has sampled several tracks off of Illmatic, and we all know he been on Nas dikk.

Kendrick Lamar talking about Illmatic
“Illmatic? For people to even put my album in the light of that, is an accomplishment. It's crazy to even be mentioned with it but it's scary at the same time . . .That era – I wanna say the age range now would be 30, 30 to 40 – they can recognize this was the album. Illmatic’s the album for the ’90s era when I was growing up. . .it's just a weird feeling to be in that same type of light, ‘cus it takes a whole lot of responsibility to keep that up in the long run and longevity, and that's something I don’t have yet…so Illmatic will always be #1.”

Ghostface Killah
"When I used to listen to Nas back in the days, it was like, ‘Oh shyt! He murdered that.’ That forced me to get my pen game up. . .The whole Illmatic album forced you to go ahead and do shyt . . .It was inspiration."

The Game on "Hustlers"
"1995, eleven years from the day! I'm in the record shop with choices to make Illmatic on the top shelf, The Chronic on the left, homie wanna cop both but only got a twenty on me so fukk it, I stole both, spent the twenty on a dub-sack ripped the package ofIllmatic and bumped that for my nikkas it was too complex when Nas rhymed I was the only Compton nikka with a New York State of Mind"

Malice of Clipse
"Illmatic captured the whole New York state of mind for me. It embraced everything I knew New York to be. The album had 10 songs, all of them flawless. Me and my homies got great memories of rolling around listening to that, huslin', smokin', chillin'. That embodied everything that was right with hip-hop. That CD never came out my deck."

Joey BADA$$
"Till I draw enough static in my sonic anatomy, and come out imputed with Blueprints and Illmatic's"
Common
Illmatic's only flaw is that "it's too short"
Molded "Be" after Illmatic

Elzhi

J.Cole
"Nas wrote the bible" (Illmatic)

Fashawn

You shyt on The Source's rating yet it wasn't the only publication to give Illmatic great review
Rolling Stone: 4 out of 5
Rolling Stone Album Guide: 5 out of 5
USA Today: 3.5 out of 4
Chicago Tribune: 3.5 out of 4
Pitchfork Media: 10 out of 10
Robert Christgau: A

with the East Coast bias, albums from other regions like The Chronic, Doggystyle, MATW, Aquemini, The Diary, Amerikkka's Most Wanted all received critical acclaim.

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

popularity is what matters the most. in order to have that type of popularity, you obviously had to have a great impact.

and if you want to talk about changing the game, you already acknowledged him revolutionizing the mixtape scene, which is greater than anything that was done by these other dudes you tryna vouch for.

Then by that logic MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were runnin shyt too cause they were sellin the most units at one point also.

Like I said obviously 50 was a huge, HUGE success but if his impact were as big as you claim his imprint on the game wouldn't have vanished so quickly. By 2007 he needed Jusitn Timberlake to get his shyt poppin and every time he tried to drop a song by himself it went nowhere. By 2008 the game had completely changed and there was no sign of 50's influence ANYWHERE on radio or in mainstream hip hop.

lil jon didn't change anything. there was a communal effort to push crunk music to the moon. they used this as the vehicle to the start dumbing down the culture. they were championing crunk as being at the forefront of hip-hop before lil jon & esb album even started selling like that. and bone crusher flopped but they were still campaigning for him as well, and had him on that source cover claiming that crunk was running chit.

Look I'm from NY I could give two fukks about crunk but Lil Jon was a huge force in hip hop at the time man you can't deny that. Lil Jon might not have been the creative force behind the shyt but he was definitely the face of that movement.

And yea bruh crunk was kinda the go-to style for awhile. At the very least you gotta admit it contributed to the rise in synths and all that shyt... and eventually that's what took over. Timbo, Pharrell, Kanye... all the big time beatmakers were on that snyth tip and everything started to have like that techno feel.

kanye west is the symbol of what? he never had any clout in the streets.

A symbol of hip hop. Deny it all you want the man is a trendsetter. For better or worse. Half the game got they swag from Kanye. All these trend hoppin muthafukkas in the industry who attend the BET awards and shyt and rock they tight clothes and high fashion were the same muthafukkas rockin throwbacks and baggy jeans like 8 years ago. And don't even front deny his impact on the MUSIC.

and are you seriously acting like lil wayne invented punchlines and metaphors? LIKE SERIOUSLY? all he did was hop on the bandwagon when punchline rap was at his peak and applied his own brand of raps that weren't really hot but easily accessible to your average dumbass listener. and he dominated after the game was dead and almost all the real niccas were relegated to the underground. and all these new rappers that were influenced by him because they didn't know any better are a big reason why rap is beyond dead at this point.

Actually no... and I'm not sure where you got that from.

Just cause u ain't feelin these nikkas doesn't make Weezy any less of a prominent figure in hip hop, again... for better or worse.

 

[mr.africa]

This. It offically didn't go platinum til freaking 2001. That's over 7 years since its release and it took that long.

don't matter. the peers at the time knew it was a gamechanger. they have already been named many times throughout this thread, so i will not repeat.
not to mention, the album was on many best album year-end lists in '94. so the impact was there when it dropped, so much so that some known radio people in the west 'complained' about there being a east coast bias. now if the album was not known, it was by casual hip hop listeners!!!!!! google illmatic - there is a reason that page is so stacked full of info!!!

REVISIONIST HISTORIANS

 

[lutha]

Are you saying Illmatic didn't deserve 5 mics?
Are you saying that an album getting 4.5 instead of 5 is "shytting" on said album? Can you give some examples of non-east albums (ones that are universal classics) that were shytted on? I already mentioned Doggystyle.

Also, what do you make of all the artists from different regions who acknowledge being influenced by Illmatic? Like Common, Ghost, etc. it seems like you're just ignoring that. Why do you think Dre worked with Nas in 96? That was the first East Coast rapper he worked with.

nope, didn't say it didn't deserve 5...if you read my posts, I've called the album classic plenty of times...but being classic and whether it was impactful/influential are 2 different things....an album can be classic and not impact/influence shyt....that doesn't take away from the album...you and others are taking it like i'm shytting on the album, despite the fact I've stated plenty of times the album is a classic...this is exactly what i was talking about: people ignore everything I've said just cause i'm not praising the album to the heavens and acting like it affected hip hop in some massive way?...

as for naming albums, i'm not getting into that....cause that all boils down to opinion...

i'm not ignoring anything: illmatic had an influence in ny area, that was about it...it didn't influence hip hop as a whole...to disagree with that you pointed out 1 artist not from the ny area....dre worked with nas cause he was about getting money....after dropping the critically acclaimed illmatic, the spotlight was on nas to follow up, and he knew that's where the money was at....

 

[Wacky D]

Then by that logic MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice were runnin shyt too cause they were sellin the most units at one point also.

Like I said obviously 50 was a huge, HUGE success but if his impact were as big as you claim his imprint on the game wouldn't have vanished so quickly. By 2007 he needed Jusitn Timberlake to get his shyt poppin and every time he tried to drop a song by himself it went nowhere. By 2008 the game had completely changed and there was no sign of 50's influence ANYWHERE on radio or in mainstream hip hop.



Look I'm from NY I could give two fukks about crunk but Lil Jon was a huge force in hip hop at the time man you can't deny that. Lil Jon might not have been the creative force behind the shyt but he was definitely the face of that movement.

And yea bruh crunk was kinda the go-to style for awhile. At the very least you gotta admit it contributed to the rise in synths and all that shyt... and eventually that's what took over. Timbo, Pharrell, Kanye... all the big time beatmakers were on that snyth tip and everything started to have like that techno feel.


A symbol of hip hop. Deny it all you want the man is a trendsetter. For better or worse. Half the game got they swag from Kanye. All these trend hoppin muthafukkas in the industry who attend the BET awards and shyt and rock they tight clothes and high fashion were the same muthafukkas rockin throwbacks and baggy jeans like 8 years ago. And don't even front deny his impact on the MUSIC.



Actually no... and I'm not sure where you got that from.

Just cause u ain't feelin these nikkas doesn't make Weezy any less of a prominent figure in hip hop, again... for better or worse.

da hell are you talking about? I didn't say a dam thing about sales. youre the one in here with the commercialized arguments. not me. and I thought we were talking about prime 50 cent. how did you fast forward to 4-5 years?

I was listening to lil jon & esb long before 2003 dog. im not downplaying anybody. im just spittin real chit. and youre completely dodging it and trying to argue about some ole other chit that I didn't even say. and sure, people were doing crunk singles seeing that it was the only way they felt they could get on the radio at the time. same with the horrid love-rap era of radio singles that proceeded it. all this came after the game got monopolized, but of course you don't want to hear that.

kanye's swag is all over the game? sure if all youre exposed to are industry plants and weirdo rappers.

and tight clothes were made popular by jim jones/juelz/byrd gang. not kanye west.

my bad if I jumped the gun on the wayne comment.

im not downplaying anybody. just putting things in their proper perspective.

 

[daze23]

so what are magazine ratings then?

something a little better than "my friends claim to own it, but never let me borrow it"

I mean are cats really using their little circumference to represent the world? me and my peeps played PRT Pure Poverty into the ground, but I don't try to front like that album was some kind of "universal classic"

 

[mobbinfms]

so what are magazine ratings then?




bone is a group that deserves more than one slot on a top 100 albums list. come on man.

and "hell on earth" is no "e.99 eternal".

and yea, theres a lot more albums I can name but Im not really trying to go off-topic. I almost forgot the topic already. plus im pro-illmatic in this discussion.

you missed the point concerning the Kendrick comment. the point is lyricism never left. and Kendrick found out the hard way. he didn't make anybody step anything up. all the rappers that chitted on him, this was just another walk in the ballpark to them. this is why I be telling dudes on here to stop listening to cornball raps.



ur from Chicago. of course everybody considers "adrenaline rush" a classic there.

I apologize for penning kanye on you.

illmatic is a legit goat album candidate tho dog. illmatic was always ILLMATIC.

Magazine ratings should be much more reliable than anecdotal evidence for a variety of reasons. It depends on the magazine.

You think 1999 should have got 5?

I know it's off topic, the regionalism ratings stuff, but its interesting to see how many bad calls they made.

I disagree with you on the Kendrick shyt. It's always goo for someone to come along and try to motivate others to do better.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

something a little better than "my friends claim to own it, but never let me borrow it"

I mean are cats really using their little circumference to represent the world? me and my peeps played PRT Pure Poverty into the ground, but I don't try to front like that album was some kind of "universal classic"

How about it took 7 years and a high profile beef to go plat, while other albums of the era were movin off the shelves

 

[mobbinfms]

nope, didn't say it didn't deserve 5...if you read my posts, I've called the album classic plenty of times...but being classic and whether it was impactful/influential are 2 different things....an album can be classic and not impact/influence shyt....that doesn't take away from the album...you and others are taking it like i'm shytting on the album, despite the fact I've stated plenty of times the album is a classic...this is exactly what i was talking about: people ignore everything I've said just cause i'm not praising the album to the heavens and acting like it affected hip hop in some massive way?...

as for naming albums, i'm not getting into that....cause that all boils down to opinion...

i'm not ignoring anything: illmatic had an influence in ny area, that was about it...it didn't influence hip hop as a whole...to disagree with that you pointed out 1 artist not from the ny area....dre worked with nas cause he was about getting money....after dropping the critically acclaimed illmatic, the spotlight was on nas to follow up, and he knew that's where the money was at....

Your last post came across like you were low key trying to say Illmatic didn't deserve that 5, but it wasn't clear - so I asked you to clarify. I have been reading your posts.

If you are aware of a few classics that got less than 4.5 from the Source...add on. Let's explore this bias.

You missed the "etc." Check the post from @ISOMELO he mentioned artists from Detroit, NC, LA, Chicago. Nationwide.

Also, the bolded part really makes it seem like Illmatic had a tremendous impact.