A QUESTION FOR THE OLD HEADS.....DID ILLMATIC REALLY HAVE AS MUCH OF AN IMPACT AS PEOPLE SAY.....
- Thread starter How Sway?
- Start date
I was 11 in 94', but I'm from the hood where kids don't have a real childhood, so Illmatic definitely would have resonated with me and my peers where I'm from. Ever heard of Robert yummy Sandifer? He was living the life Nas was talking about on Illmatic as a ten year old in Chicago and every hood across America is full of Yummy's. Yummy was all over the media like Trayvon Martin in 94'. In 94', I was listening to Doggystyle, 36 Chambers and lots of local underground Bay Rap that I was surrounded by. I understood what they were talking about because people were really living that life all around me in the ghetto unlike some of these suburban Nas stans who ain't never even seen QB with their own naked eyes.As for Yo MTV raps and shyt, I grew up without cable TV potna, but I saw the Bay Area version Menace II Society live with my own eyes when I was only four feet high on the block where I used to reside.
If you ain't from NY, I have no idea why you dikkride Nas so much because I'm sure Nas looks down on wherever you are from because everybody from NY thinks they've "seen everything" when they ain't never see a palm tree or smoked anything resembling Cali bomb weed
.
let me clarify something.
what i meant by "reasonated" and illmatic not reasonating with most 4th graders or whatever, is the fact that a lot of kids that age didn't know who he was.
i wasn't referring to his subject matter or anything like that.
Most "Hip Hop heads" ain't even hear Illmatic until 2001 when he started beefing on wax with Jigga.. "Big Poppa" sounds like a classic Cali track with its whiny synths and Bay Area player subject matter. Nas was basically a Kool G Rap clone spitting over Tribe Called Quest, Gang Starr and Main Source beats. Russel Simmons refused to sign Nas to Def Jam because he said Nasir sounded too much like Kool G Rap. End of story.
Nas is the most overrated rapper of all-time. If he hadn't beef with Jay in 2001 he would be remembered as an average rapper with an average career. Nastradamus was one of the worst fall offs in Rap history. I'm from the Bay and our best rappers were also severely overlooked, mostly because they weren't signed to major labels. But being signed to a major label, being from New York and being backed by the biggest most respected NY producers of the era and your album goes wood?
I know this was a troll verse, but fucck it, i'll feed the troll on this one. 1st of all, how can people forget about It was Written and it's commercial success off that album. If anything, the main reason why Illmatic began to take more of a recognition because of his 2nd album's commercial appeal. It was an album that really divided a lot of circles in hip hop because most people were introduced through that album than with Illmatic. And because of that, a lot of the original fanbase felt Nas sold out by trying to go commercial and told those who just got into Nas to peep his 1st album. In other words, it was the influence of his 2nd LP that got people checking out his first. As I stated before, the impact is due word of mouth and nothing more.
However, you are absolutely correct with last paragraph. Nas, through It was Written became overrated and this disgusted many fans because they all wanted that OLD Nasty Nas that they originally heard with Illmatic. It took Jay-Z to awaken a sleeping giant, even spite of Jay-Z's intent to put the nail in the coffin once and for all. But that's why Nas called that comeback album Stillmatic, because it's to take notice for all hip hop that he's still that same dude from '94. The whole issue between when he 1st dropped to 2001 was with him never living up to the expectations of that 1st LP.
I was 11 in 94', but I'm from the hood where kids don't have a real childhood, so Illmatic definitely would have resonated with me and my peers where I'm from. Ever heard of Robert yummy Sandifer? He was living the life Nas was talking about on Illmatic as a ten year old in Chicago and every hood across America is full of Yummy's. Yummy was all over the media like Trayvon Martin in 94'. In 94', I was listening to Doggystyle, 36 Chambers and lots of local underground Bay Rap that I was surrounded by. I understood what they were talking about because people were really living that life all around me in the ghetto unlike some of these suburban Nas stans who ain't never even seen QB with their own naked eyes.
Are you on drugs or something? I rarely, if ever, talk about Nas. Actually read up on what I post about before you say some stupid shyt like "I have no idea why you dikk ride Nas so much".
As far as the rest of what you said, none of that has anything to do with anything.
at you writing your autobiography in response to a simple ass question, "did Nas have impact?".Fred.
intilectual recipricol
Killin fake hip hop
You the nikka, but you lyin lolthat's
back in the 90's we actually had an all rap radio station out here. and they stayed playing and breaking records. that's where I first heard of nas. this was way before illmatic came out. they stayed playing ain't hard to tell and halftime. just off those two records alone, I knew I was fukking with his album when it dropped and I was a fan ever since. I knew mad nikkas that was bumping illmatic when that joint dropped.
Wasnt nobody bumpin illmatic whether bought or bootleg.
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
I was 11 in 94', but I'm from the hood where kids don't have a real childhood, so Illmatic definitely would have resonated with me and my peers where I'm from. Ever heard of Robert yummy Sandifer? He was living the life Nas was talking about on Illmatic as a ten year old in Chicago and every hood across America is full of Yummy's. Yummy was all over the media like Trayvon Martin in 94'. In 94', I was listening to Doggystyle, 36 Chambers and lots of local underground Bay Rap that I was surrounded by. I understood what they were talking about because people were really living that life all around me in the ghetto unlike some of these suburban Nas stans who ain't never even seen QB with their own naked eyes.
rap is the industry commerce model made from the cultural music created within hiphop.
so, if you were not into hiphop.
you would not have heard of nas in 1994.
rap was not marketed as a fully inclusive pop rated item till late 1995, early 1996.
when, leo burnett and reg know, of the dem darian dyslexics pretty much created the credible blueprint on how to market hiphop to the mainstream.
which is why the threadstarter @essdot.
is incorrect in using a model, based on sales that was not culturally endorsed.
especially, for a time when the culture had fought off the second industry created wave to infringe upon the culture of hiphop using rap.
illmatic was one of the few albums in that exact time.
which if nas had of kept it true in the third industrial period of rap in 1996.
rap would still have the cultural connection to the rap industry.
so, the next generation could have had an emcee who was better than nas.
instead of the new gen being biters of nas, who are using the whatif version of whatif elmatic came out on a major.
art barr
He seems like he would've typed out the exact same response no matter what the topic is. On some "check out how hood I am".
I'm a grown ass man, I don't care about that shyt.
Fred.
Big Skilly Films
All Star
this right here is on point...yo wacky why do you keep trying to convince these kids the majority in here was 10 yrs old & under...they were playing with toys back then they dont know shyt...
i guess i feel obligated since i grew up playing both sides of the fence.
same with the reasonable doubt threads.
unifying a hip-hop nation.
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Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
you talking about from a popular mainstream perspective.
illmatic should never be judged from a popular mainstream perspective.
as it is not a popular mainstream genre specific record.
illmatic is a cultural music piece, that was released on a major.
at the time illmatic was released,..
it would be considered what a roots reggae artist released.
which is why nas eventually selling out on iww,..
or, the equivalent of making the dancehall of the shaggy variety.
to make popular culture based music as the most important cog in the next gen of culturally based music.
is why rap was set back so far,.....
which eventually setback the culture and with it, popular society as well
as an end result to all the other popular culture based society fukkery from music to whatever.
licensed to ill and 50 were made to be completely blatant top drawing pop genre mainstream specific works.
created with all the formula specific bells and whistles as an exact plan.
to seize, create, and produce a large impact, from a pop level.
illmatic, was made to create and produce, and also seized a large impact, from a cultural level.
to the point it also crossed over, as well as a culturally endorsed record like that could.
with genre's who kept their third eye open to other culture based high quality works.
so, it also had impact in that regard as well.
art barr
Hair Jordan
Miley Cyrus' Pimp
There's no question that the mark Illmatic left on the game was a slow burn. Who cares though? Whether it blew up right away or took time, the fact is, it blew up. Illmatic changed a lot of things. For one, how many rappers you know that managed to rap on a sample by the God Micheal Jackson? Nas was the first, and one of the FEW. Up until Illmatic most rap albums had 1 or 2 producers making ALL of the tracks. Nas had a gang of producers and was able to still release a cohesive project. He was one of the first rappers to ever do that too. Nas set the bar for lyricism. Jay Stans... please believe your boy Jay was LOVING that Illmatic shyt and studied it close, he even admits this himself. Illmatic earned the coveted 5 mic rating back when the Source actually meant something, in fact it was the bible. This thread exists in 2013, because we're still talking about Illmatic in 2013.
pac was a nobody?????
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
yeah, back in 1994.
since they eliminated breaking and graf from the popular mainstream eye.
well, before this group of kids, that are adults now, were cognitive.
to the point they never had a real proper multi pillar gateway into the culture of hiphop through a mainstream medium.
in my gen,...
on top of rapping, dj'n, graf, and the social interaction of the culture.
we had breaking, as a physical activity as a kid.
so, most kids from my gen have a certain affinity for hiphop as just a gateway rap fan.
who you could say was a big time former breakin fan.
so, even if they never went far in the culture of hiphop.
they still have a certain respect.
plus, they got to experience cyphers, and the actual respected watching of the visual spectacle,.....
so, to speak that comes along with partaking in the culture.
so, the fan that predates this fan had more.
to expect more from fans, from my era when it came to being into the skills and culture.
fans who were raised and became cognitive in the nineties,...
they were about a decade removed from the visual impact of breaking, as a gateway.
they never got to understand,..
or, know why Leroy being gay[supposedly] ruined the gateway and coolness of breaking nationally.
to the point,...
classically trained arenas were given the wack nod, because of the EXTREME social dangers of homosexuality in hiphop.
to the point,...
even acting was looked at as taboo.
to the point, rappers could lose or never have a credible rap career if they were in poorly selected acting roles.
which infringed upon certain protection mechanism culturally, that should never be infringed upon, for proven culturally endured reasons.
hiphop as a culture was attacked from the loss of breaking.
so, by the time the gen that were kids and even hordes of teens.
never got to really embrace or know hiphop.
plus, rap was being used as a purposeful engine for the marketing of the prison industrial complex.
so, you had rap being made in a world.
that was reversing the little bit of good hiphop had done culturally from the seventies to the eighties, socially.
so, by the time....
this gen came along....
things were so far gone, by a decade or more.
there is no way,...illmatic being an extreme culturally based music piece would have resonated to that gen, in a popular medium.
small children from the nineties were not made of the same type of stuff.
a kid who was born in the seventies, got.
we got more, and were cognitive for media before mother's groups and marketing existed in the oversaturated ideals and industry it is now.
when I was seven and eight,...
I actually was experienced as a record shopper, reel/film buyer and actual radio listener.
you had to be,....
to be entertained as a kid,..you had to actually know how to work shyt that would be viewed as complicated, now.
case in point,..if I wanted to relisten to a jazz piece pops had.
I had to know how to rewind a two inch reel, and not fukk it completely up.
which could easily happen.
kids in the nineties never had to experience sifting through the good and the bad.
or, know how to work some next level shyt to see or hear the good.
it was a different visionary time,....
to be honest,...
kids of the nineties had it really easy when it came to accessing things. t
to the point,...pop became an actual tangible created genre or mass produced item.
back, when I was a kid...
people were more researched and into cultures.
so, you got an extremely indepth larger understanding of more.
which made you seek out and do more of what you were into to.
also,...the culture was really real and vibrantly filled with real bboys/bgirls.
it was not a large over saturated mashup of toys, trying to play dress up and pretend they were apart of the culture.
like it is now,...where hiphop is the number one popular gateway culture in the world.
when illmatic was out,...
looking and appealing to the culture of hiphop was not popular at all.
art barr
art barr
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
in 1994, pac was nowhere near to as culturally accepted as nas was in 1994.
which is why nas became the large gateway for cultural based rap fans in 1996.
which, is also why nas selling out.
was not needed, as he would have eventually moved the cultural importance of hiphop to forefront for the industry of rap like krs did in the mid to late 80's.
yet, he did not stay true, and here we are.
in 94, pac was pretty much the overly pr'd rapper who could be a much larger platinum selling rapper/actor.
if he stayed out of the press with legal issues.
especially, back then..
since, every time you were in the press with anything attached to a pair of handcuffs.
was always given the most extreme negative backlash, on too many platforms to name.
on top of being a rapper, and the people in the know and in charge...
also, are behind the marketing of the prison industrial complex.
in 1994, pac was kinda like a nobody.....
he originally, was a movie money marketed feature gangsta rap artist.
which means he was pegged to be a platinum gangsta rapper as the general rule.
so, he was doing what he was pretty much signed to do.
yet, past that in the public eye...
he could have been viewed as a nobody.
back at that exact time,...
he could have been tupack shackur, and been glad to just get the pr.
no matter how good or bad.
it was not until his whole shooting, bandanna tied spitting shooting mtv rant vids and matw..
did, pac turn into the mythical two that America likes to market/pr, as the only archetypes that are acceptable.
when it comes to black men of a certain gen.
art barr
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Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
I love Nas, but he benefits from incredible double standards on the Coli (and sohh before that). The excuses kill me, why would bootlegging be a factor for him and not the other artists in the same Era?
I wont even touch on albums from the west like doggystyle or regulate...g funk era who's impact blew illmatic's out of the water. Lets just take a look at Rappers from the tri state area that released an album in that same time period (1993-1996).
Wu tang, 36 chambers went gold in 4 months in March 1994 (from Nov 1993)
Biggie, Ready to die took 2 months to go gold in Nov 1994 (from Sept 1994)
Redman, Dare iz a darkside went gold in under two months in Jan 1995 (from Nov 1994)
ODB, Return to the 36 chambers went gold in 3 months in June 1995 (from March 1995)
Mob deep, The infamous went gold in 2 months in June 1995 (from April 1995)
Raekwon, OB4CL went gold in 2 months in October 1995 (from August 1995)
Jay Z, Reasonable doubt went Gold in 3 months in Sept 1996 (from June 1996)
Mob deep, Hell on earth went gold in 5 months in April 1997 (from November 1996)
IWW, by Nas himself, released in Sept 1996 went gold under a month
Now we have Illmatic, going gold in 21 months in Jan 1996 (from April 1994)! But no, its because it was bootlegged, otherwise would have gone platinum in a month
Even if you exclude Ready to die which you could say had a lot of promotion, the point still stands. The most hilarious one is Jay-Z's RD, who I must have seen about 20 threads (from sohh and on here) about its revisionism in terms of its impact, I wonder what that makes Illmatic that took almost 2 years to go gold.
I think you are making this post from a non-actualized stand point.
especially, when it comes to the comparison of the other albums of this era.
as it relates to bootlegging, and impacting album sales for a cultural based music product.
back in the the era you are talking about,..
rap was still a predominately cultural music based product.
the only exact model that had surefire mainstream permeation at all.
was the branching of dr dre produced work and some westcoast associated gangsta/street rap.
like the getoboyz, before the south became a fully segregated regional entity.
the artist you listed existed in a culturally based market.
where bootlegging, could and did affect their sales.
to the point,...
most of that list excluding bigg, mobb deep, and jayz.
have some issues were bootlegging kept them from achieveing some industry plateau based milestone as far as sales are concerned.
on top, of the fact...
the eastcoast at that time.
you could say the bootlegger may have ben the number one sales outlet for culturally based artist of any type of music.
which would also, included rap
illmatic falls into the same, if not for bootlegging.
it could have went gold, in thirty days category.
brand Nubians', all4one endured and lead to the eventual disbanding of brand Nubians.
where puba went solo and sadat/jamar went onto make classics, in those incarnation, as well.
bootlegging was an extremely big issue before the completely fraudulent sales spike era.
art barr