A Song of Ice & Fire by George R.R. Martin: Book Discussion Thread

[O.Red]

There was a good 15 year period where he said he wouldn't write another Dunk & Egg novella until he finished the book series. Then this year, coinciding with the show, suddenly he said oh yes I'm writing the next novella lmao. It's shameless and pathetic. I don't even think Dunk & Egg will last as a show but he's probably now obsessed with pumping out as much material as possible so the show doesn't catch up with him. Oh and so he can release another book collection with the three existing novellas plus the new one (which I'm sure will be significantly longer/more bloated).

He keeps backing himself into massive corners. We all know Dunk & Egg is building up to Summerhall, and one of the biggest mysteries of the entire series. And while I don't think the show would last long enough to get there....imagine if it did lol. Another big thing revealed before he can get shyt done. Laughable...

Nikka world building was so good it gave him a shield from his own world

 

[O.Red]

It's amazing that I hated this book the first time and now I've read it 3 times

 

[Dave24]

It's amazing that I hated this book the first time and now I've read it 3 times

@O.Red what caused the change in your perspective on that book??

 

[The War Report]

The chapters depicting Stannis trying to sack King's Landing from the river was glorious. The Tyrion chapter where he describes the high of being in battle was peak.

Pod

 

[Piff Perkins]

@O.Red what caused the change in your perspective on that book??

I think most people who dislike AFFC have the same opinion: the previous book (A Storm Of Swords) is almost universally considered the best novel in the series, and it ends with a lot of wild cliff hangers. Then people had to wait 5 years for a new book that didn't address most of the cliff hangers, didn't include most of people's favorite characters (Jon, Tyrion, etc), and didn't have a lot of action. It's a contemplative novel. Lots of traveling, thinking, and plotting. And some people hated the new POV chapters.

Personally I loved AFFC on the first read. It's not as good as A Storm Of Swords but I genuinely think it has Martin's best prose.

 

[Dave24]

I think most people who dislike AFFC have the same opinion: the previous book (A Storm Of Swords) is almost universally considered the best novel in the series, and it ends with a lot of wild cliff hangers. Then people had to wait 5 years for a new book that didn't address most of the cliff hangers, didn't include most of people's favorite characters (Jon, Tyrion, etc), and didn't have a lot of action. It's a contemplative novel. Lots of traveling, thinking, and plotting. And some people hated the new POV chapters.

Personally I loved AFFC on the first read. It's not as good as A Storm Of Swords but I genuinely think it has Martin's best prose.

@Piff Perkins thanks for your answer, appreciate it! I have never read any of the books. In your opinion are the books better than the show and also are they the types of books you can still enjoy and read them multiple times??

 

[The War Report]

@Piff Perkins thanks for your answer, appreciate it! I have never read any of the books. In your opinion are the books better than the show and also are they the types of books you can still enjoy and read them multiple times??

Books are 1000% better than the show. The show gives you like a rough outline of the books.

 

[O.Red]

@O.Red what caused the change in your perspective on that book??

I forgot to answer this

For one there's the general context. Feast comes after Storm of Swords which is so the bar was already sky high. Then you start Feast and half the cast is missing, and this nikka adds like 20 new characters Jon is in one chapter for 3-4 pages, Tyrion doesn't appear at all etc. And this is me reading in 2013. I couldn't imagine reading that shyt in 2004 and having to wait till 2011 to read Dance so all of this made for a boring and frustrating first read

A few years later I reread the books again and Feast was so much better to me, and here's why

Feast for Crows is hilarious easily the funniest book in the series

Cersei's POV chapters a journey into the mind of a selfish, wicked birdbrain watching her create this web of deception and fukkery that all came falling down on her at the end was funny as fukk

Aeron Greyjoy's bitter, religious lunatic rants

Aerys Oakheart simping for the Martell bytch and ending up headless because of her birdbrain ass plan

Davos being Davos

There's also the lore drops. All of the books have lore drops but Feast drops a lot of info about past events. Cersei mentioning how Tywin promised her she'd marry Rhaegar, then when Tywin asked The Mad King he humiliated Tywin in front of everybody. It's a great insight into Tywin and Aerys' relationship

There's also all of the plots being set up. I didn't care for Euron at first but when you consider all of the magic fukkery he introduces to the story you can see that between Euron with his crows eye and dragon horn, the dead arriving, dragons etc. There's a massive resurgence of eastern magic headed to Westeros that will have disastrous results

Then the maesters being aware and trying to shut down magic the same way they killed off the dragons

I can go on and on but Feast for Crows is a very fun read once you're an established Ice and Fire fan

 

[DA_LURKA]

trying to shut down magic...

What you mean?

 

[O.Red]

What you mean?

Sam's conversations with Marwyn in Feast. He tells Sam that the maesters killed the dragons and are actively working to prevent magic from rearing its head again

"The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons.”

Even before Feast there are multiple instances of maesters belittling, insulting, or physically opposing magic and magicians

In GOT Maester Luwin downplayed Bran's wolf dreams as old fairytale bullshyt

Maester Cressen trying to poison Melisandre in Clash

Why was Qyburn expelled from the Citadel? He says he was caught experimenting on living people but we later find out that he was also fukkin around with dark magic/necromancy

They've also been whispering about the fukkery Euron's been up to

The maesters do not fukk with magic or Targaryans(magic blood dragon people), and they use their influence and control of knowledge to suppress dragons, magic, and politics. They sound a lot like a particular group

During my first read I was mad as hell trying to get through those boring ass Sam/Citadel chapters, but now?

This vid has a few more examples I didn't mention

 

[Microfracture]

Sam's conversations with Marwyn in Feast. He tells Sam that the maesters killed the dragons and are actively working to prevent magic from rearing its head again

"The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons.”

Even before Feast there are multiple instances of maesters belittling, insulting, or physically opposing magic and magicians

In GOT Maester Luwin downplayed Bran's wolf dreams as old fairytale bullshyt

Maester Cressen trying to poison Melisandre in Clash

Why was Qyburn expelled from the Citadel? He says he was caught experimenting on living people but we later find out that he was also fukkin around with dark magic/necromancy

They've also been whispering about the fukkery Euron's been up to

The maesters do not fukk with magic or Targaryans(magic blood dragon people), and they use their influence and control of knowledge to suppress dragons, magic, and politics. They sound a lot like a particular group

During my first read I was mad as hell trying to get through those boring ass Sam/Citadel chapters, but now?

This vid has a few more examples I didn't mention

Doesn't Jaquen pop up at the Citadel with a different face?

 

[Piff Perkins]

@Piff Perkins thanks for your answer, appreciate it! I have never read any of the books. In your opinion are the books better than the show and also are they the types of books you can still enjoy and read them multiple times??

Books are way better. The characters are better in the books. I understand why the show cut corners and largely felt the first 4 seasons ranged from good to amazing. But the dynamics in the books are much more interesting, as is characterization. I was trying to explain to my mom, whose a big fan of the show, about some of the differences and she was shocked when I said Ned Stark and Jon Snow aren't known as great swordsman in the books. In the show they're badasses; Ned almost beats Jaime 1 on 1 in the first season, and Jon is unstoppable from S2 onwards with a sword lol.

But in the books Ned is described as a modest sword. He's considered an elite battle commander though, with a booming voice that rallies his troops. Flip side Jon is solid with a sword whereas Robb Stark is the one who's great at swordplay. And Jon isn't really that honorable in the novels. He's moreso like a very smart, very convincing politician who knows how to get shyt done.

 

[King Harlem]

I forgot to answer this

For one there's the general context. Feast comes after Storm of Swords which is so the bar was already sky high. Then you start Feast and half the cast is missing, and this nikka adds like 20 new characters Jon is in one chapter for 3-4 pages, Tyrion doesn't appear at all etc. And this is me reading in 2013. I couldn't imagine reading that shyt in 2004 and having to wait till 2011 to read Dance so all of this made for a boring and frustrating first read

A few years later I reread the books again and Feast was so much better to me, and here's why

Feast for Crows is hilarious easily the funniest book in the series

Cersei's POV chapters a journey into the mind of a selfish, wicked birdbrain watching her create this web of deception and fukkery that all came falling down on her at the end was funny as fukk

Aeron Greyjoy's bitter, religious lunatic rants

Aerys Oakheart simping for the Martell bytch and ending up headless because of her birdbrain ass plan

Davos being Davos

There's also the lore drops. All of the books have lore drops but Feast drops a lot of info about past events. Cersei mentioning how Tywin promised her she'd marry Rhaegar, then when Tywin asked The Mad King he humiliated Tywin in front of everybody. It's a great insight into Tywin and Aerys' relationship

There's also all of the plots being set up. I didn't care for Euron at first but when you consider all of the magic fukkery he introduces to the story you can see that between Euron with his crows eye and dragon horn, the dead arriving, dragons etc. There's a massive resurgence of eastern magic headed to Westeros that will have disastrous results

Then the maesters being aware and trying to shut down magic the same way they killed off the dragons

I can go on and on but Feast for Crows is a very fun read once you're an established Ice and Fire fan

You guys just got me wanting to read the books again (I only read the series once).
I just so many other books on my read list.

 

[detroitwalt]

You guys just got me wanting to read the books again (I only read the series once).
I just so many other books on my read list.

I just started over. I’m at Dany’s chapter where Drogo is about to die. @Piff Perkins & @O.Red got me wanting to jump to Feast right now. I only read that and Dance once each.

 

[O.Red]

You guys just got me wanting to read the books again (I only read the series once).
I just so many other books on my read list.

It's definitely worth it. Grrm's world is so dense with history and lore that you'll come away with something new with each read

Shyt is so detailed that in these discussions you almost have to remind yourself you're talking about a fictional world