A Southern lawmaker called Lincoln a ‘tyrant’ and compared him to Hitler

[88m3]

Looking at the history of slavery it was nearly always abolished through war or the threat of war or a combination.

 

[dennis roadman]

Slavery was ended everywhere else without conflict... supporting the idea.
What makes you think that war was necessary?

Explain how this is justification for war?

Whether or not it would've ended on its own can't really be answered because we'd basically just be talking about alternate history. I will say that slavery as practiced in the South wasn't the kind of institution that goes quietly in the night. It was extremely reactionary to any and all threats, real or imagined.

Dap +Rep

 

[Mook]

Dead7 is just plain awful which is not surprising. Libertarians round out 2 spots in woat poster of HL with David the faq taking the other.

 

[Mensch Fontana]

Nah secession had to do with the tariffs being increased on imports, which hurt the south.
20 years prior when the Tariff of Abominations had been repealed the southern states said they would secede if they brought the tariffs back, and they did so when lincoln took office and enacted the tariffs. Remember the nullification crisis had the south damn near agreeing to secede in the 1830s.


Sure we do.
Sometimes you might want to get out of your feelings and listen or pay more attention to the logic of what is being presented, rather than how you feel.

That said I disagree with Dead's position while also being a libertarian, but I understand the argument he is making, even though I disagree with his stance.

What were these tariffs on again?

 

[Darth Nubian]

You do realize that the Civil War was not really about slavery; right?

The North was actually fighting to preserve the Union. The South was fighting to secede which they cloaked under some bullshyt called "States rights", which many Southern White planters pointed to maintaining slavery. So the North was not actually fighting to abolish slavery it was just a byproduct of the North's victory and the desire to preserve the Union. What is lost in history is that there were many Southerners that did not want slavery and many Northerners that were pro-slavery.

Go read the Articles of Secession. The southerners explicitly state that they wanted to secede in order to preserve the institution of slavery and that continued subjugation of Black people was an expression of God's will. That fact that some regular citizens didn't give a fukk is irrelevant. The causes of the war are defined by those with the ability to wage war. All this taxes and tariffs bullshyt is just a byproduct of lost cause scholarship. Southerners knew they were going on the ash heap of history and were trying to save face for future generations.

 

[ZoeGod]

Sherman should've been given a free hand, if anyone ever deserved total war it was the south

Every Confederate general and politician should have either been shot or hang after the war. And every plantation should had their land seized by the Feds and given to the slaves. And Federal troops should have stayed in the south for 50 years.

 

[David_TheMan]

What were these tariffs on again?

imports from overseas, I believe mainly england.
Tariff of Abominations - Wikipedia

 

[David_TheMan]

fixed.

I refuse to let those political appropriators b*stardize the word "libertarian"

libertarian was coined by Murray Rothbard, someone I'm sure you would say is a right wing libertarian.
So how can right wing libertarians appropriate a word or term they created. Factually you are trying to appropriate it from them.

 

[David_TheMan]

Go read the Articles of Secession. The southerners explicitly state that they wanted to secede in order to preserve the institution of slavery and that continued subjugation of Black people was an expression of God's will. That fact that some regular citizens didn't give a fukk is irrelevant. The causes of the war are defined by those with the ability to wage war. All this taxes and tariffs bullshyt is just a byproduct of lost cause scholarship. Southerners knew they were going on the ash heap of history and were trying to save face for future generations.

Its wasn't about slavery.
Slavery was the populist rallying cry, like freedom and democracy is the rallying cry of today.
Like I said earlier, fact of the matter is the corwin amendment to the constitution was being written, southern states knew about it, it would have been passed had the southern states remained.
The issue wasn't slavery, and like I said earlier, I'm glad the war occured when it did or Slavery would have been explicitly constitutionally protected for the life of the union. It was about import fees and the southern politicians trying to create power and a nation in their own benefit for their ruling class and not having to worry about northern politicians being able to get over on them.

Its really rich men trying to be the top dog and losing and wanting to run their own game. Now the US government doesn't like that, it can't stand to say it killed a rebellion over taxes that was the same reason it came into existance, so it hammers home slavery, as if slavery wasn't legal in the Union during the war. As if the same white supremacy structure did not exist and continue to exist in the US to this day. Its mythology to propagate some term of enderment to the US by blacks and to grant good feelings to whites, when the reality is it was all about money and old white men trying to get one up on each other.

 

[JahFocus CS]

libertarian was coined by Murray Rothbard, someone I'm sure you would say is a right wing libertarian.
So how can right wing libertarians appropriate a word or term they created. Factually you are trying to appropriate it from them.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Up until the b*stardization you adhere to came about approximately 70 years ago, the term was ALWAYS associated with anarchism and socialism, not the small business owner fantasy it is now associated with in the U.S.

Your boy Rothbard admitted it himself: A quote from The Betrayal Of The American Right

 

[David_TheMan]

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Up until the b*stardization you adhere to came about approximately 70 years ago, the term was ALWAYS associated with anarchism and socialism, not the small business owner fantasy it is now associated with in the U.S.

Your boy Rothbard admitted it himself: A quote from The Betrayal Of The American Right

You are right, I was talking its usage in the US, but internationally you are correct.

 

[DEAD7]

 

[Pirius Black]

Wow. What a time to be alive in. The descendants of slaves arguing that the war that incidentally freed them was unnecessary because too many white people died.

 

[Pirius Black]

Since we are quoting Lincoln, here's the money shot " If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

 

[DEAD7]

Wow. What a time to be alive in. The descendants of slaves arguing that the war that incidentally freed them was unnecessary because too many white people died.

Said by no one