#AbolishICE Is it a good slogan?

[Dr. Acula]

soften your slogan abolishing an organization responsible for rape, kidnapping, and concentration camps, so you can attract members of the population who didn't care about preventing rape, kidnapping, and concentration camps

what will we do now that the people who didn't care about children being kidnapped are turned off by our slogans

This poll was released by Harvard recent. Check out page 74 or page 72 for the printed page number

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-con...P_Jun2018_RegisteredVoters_Crosstabs_Memo.pdf

69% of voters are against disbanding ICE
73% of independents are against disbanding ICE
59% of Democratic voters are against disbanding ICE

When you simply ask should ICE be disbanded. Not reformed or with any additional explaination . Essentially propose it as "abolish ICE"

Also just an aside, it's not just racist whites who react negatively to it. 63% of black voters are against it when simply asked if we should abolish ice. 61% "other" not including Hispanics are against it when the question is proposed.

I'm for it, under the condition it's a less corrupt and less militarized force. I'm not worried about racist whites or conservative voters being out off by the slogan. This poll shows that even black voters and "other" initial reaction to it on its face is negative .

 

[Pressure]

ICE had its shot but it's never had a strong moral compass.

This is the same agency who have added police to their vests and jackets, despite not being police, and against the wishes of the actual police because this deception allowed them an easier in to harass folks.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

Who are these voters that will misinterpret abolish ICE?

They are voters who think that ICE protects the borders and rounds up illegal immigrants. They are voters who may think that ICE is doing what it's currently doing only because Trump is making them. They are voters who may believe that this issue may pass and so therefore it's not worth blowing up the whole thing. We both agree that these people are most likely ignorant of what ICE is, its origin, and its responsibilities. However, allowing the other party to twist the narrative and reinforce that ignorance is something we should avoid. If you think they are a lost cause, then .

 

[ineedsleep212]

 

[tru_m.a.c]

They are voters who think that ICE protects the borders and rounds up illegal immigrants. They are voters who may think that ICE is doing what it's currently doing only because Trump is making them. They are voters who may believe that this issue may pass and so therefore it's not worth blowing up the whole thing. We both agree that these people are most likely ignorant of what ICE is, its origin, and its responsibilities. However, allowing the other party to twist the narrative and reinforce that ignorance is something we should avoid. If you think they are a lost cause, then .

You guys keep missing the point (not to come off as angry so excuse the caps), BUT THERE IS NO SLOGAN YOU CAN CREATE THAT CAN'T BE MISINTERPRETED BY THESE PEOPLE.

That's what you need to understand:
- "Hands up, don't shoot" turns into "well you if were obeying the police they wouldn't feel threatened enough to shoot you."
- "No justice, no peace" turns into "in America everyone has the same opportunities"
- "Give me your tired your poor, your huddled masses" turns into conservatives denying the existence of the poem: Miller responded by noting that the poem “was added later and was not part of the original Statue of Liberty”. He went on to attack Acosta for his “cosmopolitan bias”.

You don't change your messaging for the ignorant and bigoted, because the ignorant and bigoted will never understand your point of view.

You guys keep looking at the issue as the slogan creating confusion around ICE's identity, when you need to be ignorant of the issue to be confused about the slogan.

The same goes for the existence of HBCU's, the NAACP, and BET.

This argument has been had over, and over, and over, and over again.

 

[FaTaL]

No

 

[tru_m.a.c]

This poll was released by Harvard recent. Check out page 74 or page 72 for the printed page number

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-con...P_Jun2018_RegisteredVoters_Crosstabs_Memo.pdf

69% of voters are against disbanding ICE
73% of independents are against disbanding ICE
59% of Democratic voters are against disbanding ICE

When you simply ask should ICE be disbanded. Not reformed or with any additional explaination . Essentially propose it as "abolish ICE"

Also just an aside, it's not just racist whites who react negatively to it. 63% of black voters are against it when simply asked if we should abolish ice. 61% "other" not including Hispanics are against it when the question is proposed.

I'm for it, under the condition it's a less corrupt and less militarized force. I'm not worried about racist whites or conservative voters being out off by the slogan. This poll shows that even black voters and "other" initial reaction to it on its face is negative .

Bro I know what the polls say and I know the popularity behind #abolishICE. Ocasio-Cortez was the first major politician to state she was for abolishing ICE. The first elected candidate if I'm not mistaken was out of Minnesota (her name slips my mind at this point). Now Kristen Gillibrand is running with it.

I completely understand the sentiment around the #abolishICE movement because I'm the one who started the ICE Watch thread. I started that shyt last July. Where was the rest of the coli with their posts and commentary? Nobody gave a fukk until 3 weeks ago when a US Senator took a film crew to a concentration camp. Now it's all, " what about the kids."

So why would I change my mind on a slogan when you nikkas just got here . Why would we change for y'all? If we lose your support then what? Isn't that the reality we're in right now. You're telling me it could get worse because we pushed people away, people who already didn't make a difference, with a slogan?



This chart shows you how much #abolishICE has been gaining steam. It's in it's infancy bro. Again, most Americans didn't even care about the atrocities going on, but now want to jump in the movement and change shyt........to attract other people that don't give a shyt

If you ran that same poll in 7/2017 it would've been 80%+ for ICE with every party, but the kidnappings and violations were still taking place.

You don't sanitize murder bro. Changing the slogan is non-negotiable to me unless it's coming from an immigration lawyer or one of the original members of the movement. The people will catch up to the message. The number one way to prevent that though is to focus on slogans and not the human rights violations. #abolishICE is the result of seeing the carnage, not the other way around. Let the people see and they will follow.

 

[afterlife2009]

peter daou with the facts

 

[88m3]

our resident progressives support ice

 

[ineedsleep212]

our resident progressives support ice

I think it's more of people being suspicious of how to win the argument even though all I see online is centrists calling it ridiculous to call for abolishing it.

 

[88m3]

I think it's more of people being suspicious of how to win the argument even though all I see online is centrists calling it ridiculous to call for abolishing it.

nah lol


I don't think there's a serious centrist position on pro American gestapo

The majority of Americans are horrified


I personally know and don't think everything DHS and ICE does is "bad" or "wrong" but ICE has lost any meaningful standing as a named agency and we clearly need the laws to be reworked and set out for their mission. It's all way too vague and peoples rights are being torpedoed.

 

[ineedsleep212]

nah lol


I don't think there's a serious centrist position on pro American gestapo

The majority of Americans are horrified

I think the argument can be made but these folks think people will automatically think abolishing ICE means anarchy and be heard through white ears as you're just letting all of the criminals run in. That's why it would have to be pushed by Democrats on cable news and Congress and Trump shouldn't be allowed to control the discussion (that VOICE shyt, the propaganda he mentions at rallies). Frankly, I've seen folks online take the stance of not separating families and everything else is fine to them. We'll have to see how opinions change the more it gets promoted and is talked about in the mainstream.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So...
I've personally seen the debate about this slogan and I'm noticing where you have people interpreting #abolish ice as meaning getting rid of immigration enforcement entirely. Then someone responds "no you idiot. They're not saying allow all illegal immigration. Some people use the slogan to mean to replace it with a less militarized force like we had with ins. Some other people really believe in abolishing ICE and further, believe in open borders and noone is illegal. Some simply just want to downsize ICE. Etc. Etc."

So, imo, if a slogan requires a bunch of addendum to explain what you REALLY mean, then it might not really be the best slogan. While I understand making slogans provocative to attract attention, people should still be able to gather what you really mean when you say it. Like Medicare for all. There isnt a lot of explanation needed to clarify that one.

Thoughts?

I prefer HYON

Hold your own nuts

Am I right @88m3

 

[Json]

No. I don't think you guys understand the point. Who are these voters that will misinterpret abolish ICE? Are they republicans? Are they democrats who voted for trump? Are they white people of any political party who ignore police violence? Are they white people easily persuaded by fake news? Are they voters that blamed immigrants seeking asylum LEGALLY for having their children kidnapped.

If you can't paint a portrait of the voter you're afraid will misinterpret the slogan you're either a) creating a fictional problem or b) not admitting that the voter who misinterprets this is a piece of shyt. There is no in-between.

We are talking about murder, rape, forcible drugging, and concentration camps. Why are we giving people the benefit of the doubt for NOT knowing this shyt?

I can’t speak for others but my point was this push against ICE won’t move the needle either way.

The same way men in orange jumpsuits with black bags over there heads didn’t do a thing to move Americans for or against torture. Obama just stopped doing it but Guantanamo is still there.

 

[88m3]

I think the argument can be made but these folks think people will automatically think abolishing ICE means anarchy and be heard through white ears as you're just letting all of the criminals run in. That's why it would have to be pushed by Democrats on cable news and Congress and Trump shouldn't be allowed to control the discussion (that VOICE shyt, the propaganda he mentions at rallies). Frankly, I've seen folks online take the stance of not separating families and everything else is fine to them. We'll have to see how opinions change the more it gets promoted and is talked about in the mainstream.

Man you're just as bad as nap and @FAH1223 with your random twitter quotes

Anyone who seriously is paying attention or cares on a human level knows this is wrong.


I've got personal stories for days about what is going on with ice and immigration right now.

Anyone taking a us vs you position whatever their race is a pos.