Adam Smith to Richard Spencer: Why Libertarians turn to the Alt-Right

[ELESDEE616]

It seems like the mainstream debate on Adam Smith and Capitalism ignores his third stated purpose of government, which is to administer the needs of a civil society that the free market can't. Fire fighting, or plowing roads are a good simple example of this. If the pro-socialism left could just acknowledge that universal health care could be put in these same terms (thereby making it a progressive liberal position rather than a socialist one), they'd alienate less people who are anti-socialism. I don't even really think most American socialists are actual socialists...it's more just fashionable at the moment to say you are amongst other liberals, but it's detrimental to actual progress.

Not the lefts fault the right wing is so evil they cant see that healthcare is a human right in 90% of the developed world

There's a small minority of right wingers who view as private control of healthcare as being more efficient than publically controlled HC. Which I can respect because even though its wrong it's just a disagreement in philosophies. However most right wingers will tell you they would rather people die than give a dime of there "hard earned money" to a poor person

if being left wing means accepting california values like this



then i dont want it

 

[88m3]

It seems like the mainstream debate on Adam Smith and Capitalism ignores his third stated purpose of government, which is to administer the needs of a civil society that the free market can't. Fire fighting, or plowing roads are a good simple example of this. If the pro-socialism left could just acknowledge that universal health care could be put in these same terms (thereby making it a progressive liberal position rather than a socialist one), they'd alienate less people who are anti-socialism. I don't even really think most American socialists are actual socialists...it's more just fashionable at the moment to say you are amongst other liberals, but it's detrimental to actual progress.

I'm not sure if I agree

 

[Dameon Farrow]

This bit is something I really would like to approach and tackle. The left really needs to market their ideas better and stop letting the right frame the beliefs, that's an easy place to start. Just looking at how BLM discussions had to start out with explaining to people that BLM didn't mean ONLY Black Lives Matter; is bonkers. Same with Abolish Ice false equivalence to End All Borders. These ideas aren't the same and we should make sure people understand the premises of the ideas we're proposing because we're losing before we even start with people who get hammered by propaganda aimed at minimizing the message.

there has never been confusion about the left and the left's views are only framed by right wingers if you listen to right wing viewers take on them.

You guys really get on here and say any damn thing.

There's confusion about the left's championing of basic human rights? There's confusion about their championing of civil rights? There's confusion about their need to protect worker's rights? Their's confusion about their championing of a woman's right to choose? There's confusion about their want to protect the underclass from the evils of the rich(ie recognizing that trickle down doesn't work). And that's just the very beginning. GTFOH.

The slick dissing of the left on here doesn't fly with me and I'll call it out any time I see it. Notice this poster brought up BLM. Anybody who didn't spend time listening to right wing talking heads and actually did research knew what BLM was about. I've only seen rednecks with a grudge against something that wasn't aimed solely at them complain about BLM and what it stands for. They're the only ones that act dumb about it too. Bu bu bu what about white lives?

 

[Dameon Farrow]

Stop slick dissing the left for daps, motherfukkers! You're not slick.

 

[Savvir]

It seems like the mainstream debate on Adam Smith and Capitalism ignores his third stated purpose of government, which is to administer the needs of a civil society that the free market can't. Fire fighting, or plowing roads are a good simple example of this. If the pro-socialism left could just acknowledge that universal health care could be put in these same terms (thereby making it a progressive liberal position rather than a socialist one), they'd alienate less people who are anti-socialism. I don't even really think most American socialists are actual socialists...it's more just fashionable at the moment to say you are amongst other liberals, but it's detrimental to actual progress.

Your whole argument doesn't make sense because the majority of people on the left who support universal healthcare don't even consider themselves socialist.

You perspective seems to be defined by propoganda from the right .

 

[storyteller]

there has never been confusion about the left and the left's views are only framed by right wingers if you listen to right wing viewers take on them.

You guys really get on here and say any damn thing.

There's confusion about the left's championing of basic human rights? There's confusion about their championing of civil rights? There's confusion about their need to protect worker's rights? Their's confusion about their championing of a woman's right to choose? There's confusion about their want to protect the underclass from the evils of the rich(ie recognizing that trickle down doesn't work). And that's just the very beginning. GTFOH.

The slick dissing of the left on here doesn't fly with me and I'll call it out any time I see it. Notice this poster brought up BLM. Anybody who didn't spend time listening to right wing talking heads and actually did research knew what BLM was about. I've only seen rednecks with a grudge against something that wasn't aimed solely at them complain about BLM and what it stands for. They're the only ones that act dumb about it too. Bu bu bu what about white lives?

Yes there's confusion, that comes down to messaging and it happens across subjects. Here's another example:

One-Third Don’t Know Obamacare and Affordable Care Act Are the Same

In the survey, 35 percent of respondents said either they thought Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act were different policies (17 percent) or didn’t know if they were the same or different (18 percent). This confusion was more pronounced among people 18 to 29 and those who earn less than $50,000 — two groups that could be significantly affected by repeal.

Among Republicans, a higher percentage (72 percent) said they knew Obamacare and the A.C.A. were the same, which may reflect the party’s longstanding hostility to the law.

People that don't have a strong opinion on issues won't stop to do the research, but they will be susceptible to headlines and framing...we shouldn't neglect a strategy that focuses more on outreach that just sets the record straight on issues.

 

[powmia]

Didn't even read all that shyt. Libertarians ARE the alt-right. Theyre the kooks who were so racist, conspiracy theory minded, that the Republican party kicked them out. Read up on all the racism in the Ron Paul newsletter. The only reason they got invited back into the tent was the establsihment republicans got wrecked by Obama and they got desperate for foot soldiers

You are on point with this analysis, 45 just made it safe and comfortable for whites to be openly racist.

 

[Savvir]

The onky reason people don't understand the ACA and "Obamacare" are the same is specifically because of right wing propoganda...

Who do you even think came up with the term obamacare?

The left has solid positions on all issues that are only muddied and misconstrued by right wing politiyical tactics .

 

[Shogun]

Your whole argument doesn't make sense because the majority of people on the left who support universal healthcare don't even consider themselves socialist.

You perspective seems to be defined by propoganda from the right .

I was only talking about those who consider themselves socialists. They taint the debate, imo, especially considering how few there are.

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

i don't know about this.... if saying black lives matter is interpreted by someone as white lives don't matter, i find that person suspect.... they probably get that interpretation not because of propaganda but because they are racist and resent the the idea that any lives should matter other than their own... in other words, they are projecting....

Yeah. I understand the intent behind emphasizing messaging, but if somebody is too myopic in their existing views, too dim witted to grasp the obvious, or easily influenced by swiss cheese idealogies and arguments, why is the onus on the messenger to make the message more palatable?

That's not, however, the same thing as not allowing the right to define your message for you. It reminds me of "The Alt-Right Playbook" video on youtube, which argues that a core component of their appeal iss that they never play defense.

 

[mc_brew]

this was so funny i almost dapped it......

 

[storyteller]

Yeah. I understand the intent behind emphasizing messaging, but if somebody is too myopic in their existing views, too dim witted to grasp the obvious, or easily influenced by swiss cheese idealogies and arguments, why is the onus on the messenger to make the message more palatable?

That's not, however, the same thing as not allowing the right to define your message for you. It reminds me of "The Alt-Right Playbook" video on youtube, which argues that a core component of their appeal iss that they never play defense.

This is exactly what I'm trying to get at (maybe poorly). There are troll and ad campaigns, viral marketing schemes and all sorts of other nonsense targeting the uninitiated right now. Being mindful of "taking back the frame" on issues is something we need to do. I don't want that coming across as softening the message, there's a difference between vying for clarity and babying people.

 

[fact]

if being left wing means accepting california values like this



then i dont want it

How are you SO AFRAID of the left wings extreme outliers, that want “socialism”, while just “it’s not that bad” when it comes to extreme right wing hate, racism, sexism, homophobia? Think about it, man, at least you can say that you would rather be associated with these racist, hateful a$$holes if the choice was between the country being taken over by “proud boys” or “SJW’s”, because you can hide with the alt right douchebags and claim “economic anxiety” instead of being a decent person.

 

[the cac mamba]

How are you SO AFRAID of the left wings extreme outliers, that want “socialism”, while just “it’s not that bad” when it comes to extreme right wing hate, racism, sexism, homophobia? Think about it, man, at least you can say that you would rather be associated with these racist, hateful a$$holes if the choice was between the country being taken over by “proud boys” or “SJW’s”, because you can hide with the alt right douchebags and claim “economic anxiety” instead of being a decent person.

if i had to choose between proud boys and sjw's, i would choose sjw's. easy choice

now what anything else?

 

[fact]

if i had to choose between proud boys and sjw's, i would choose sjw's. easy choice

now what anything else?

You just contradicted yourself when given the choice between libertarians and California SJW’s, we can keep the left, meaning you would be supporting the alternative. If that’s not the case, what did you mean? Nobody said you had to choose between the two, yet you chose against the left, lol, you just freestyle, but don’t want to be boxed in. You can do whatever you want, but when you keep on pushing the transgender people are “evil” and shouldn’t be treated like everybody else narrative you just expose yourself as someone that “picks and chooses” who to discriminate against. These Trump supporters/libertarian have done shytty, evil things which puts them in the bucket of people that should be ridiculed and fought against, while transgender folks haven’t done anything to deserve discrimination, yet you always use them as an example of people that should be treated badly, just for living. That is fukked up to me