Alexandria Ocasio Cortez - "Not All Dems Are The Same"

[ExodusNirvana]

How does college make a more educated citizenry, when we already have free school k-12 yet our academic scores continue to drop ? Progressives are idealist, there's nothing they use to back up what they say except how a utopian society should behave . Sounds buts there economics and dynamics behind everything.

Also you saying academics benign compared to military ....and how we make enemies . Tell me why did Japan attack pearl Harbor again? When we said we were neutral in the conflict? Those are the lessons that progressives refuse to understand.

This lady isn't probably qualified to be in office, hasn't had to make one decision that carries any importance in someones but was elected because she offered impoverished people free stuff. Let's be totally honest here. ..can we?

The quality of education varies from city to city and state to state

I went to PS 235 in Brooklyn as a kid. My homeroom teacher (Ms. Gathers) was VERY afro-centric and we spent all of 5th grade working on a Genealogy Project in order to construct our family trees.

We watched Roots all of that year

We watched "X"

We read Animal Farm

I didn't go to a charter school. And it wasn't a private school either. A regular old Public school where the parents DEMANDED that we get the best possible education in order to prepare us.

Every city and state doesn't have this. There are districts in Texas and other deep south states where they're literally trying to erase Slavery, convert it to "indentured servitude", erase the Trail of Tears, erase all those little things that America doesn't like to think about it.

It's more than the money....there are schools in Baltimore that legit don't have heat during the winter...why?

 

[Perfectson]

How many national-level Republicans in the entire country are openly opposing the crazy right-wing nationalist agenda of Trump and putting their money where their mouths are? Who was the last moderate Republican or ultra-conservative to stop Trump on a vote who isn't dead right now?

And the next piece of legislation passed by progressive dems will be the first in my lifetime.

Even if you think there are 4-5 parties, the crazy right-wing nationalists (proto-fascists) and the moderate dems (neoliberals) are the ones running things for either side right now.

you're trying to play semantics. What I posted in the makeup of the country, there's a reason why Dems were able to take the country back in Congress. How republicans vote has nothing to do with what we are posting about. if you're going to debate, don't draw up red herrrings and try to lure me into an arguement about it.

The worst-performing high school students from the upper 10% of the income bracket have a higher college graduation rate than the best-performing students from the bottom 10% of the income bracket.

If you are an A student in high school and your parents earn in the bottom 10%, you are less likely to graduate college than if you were a C- student in high school and your parents earn in the top 10%.

Earned my ass. Personal responsibility my ass.

instead of pulling random stats, understand common sense first. 10% of the income bracket, what type of schools do you think they are going to? You are comparing graduation rates and performance of students but disregarding that they aren't going to the same QUALITY of schools. of course the top 10% of the income brack have higher graduation rates, they send their kids to 60k a year private schools who literally are the pool of the students that go to IVY league schools, those that don't are well prepped for college academics.

Also your last stat is meangingless, personal responsibility is that your parents help pay for school and if I'm a high income earner of course my dumb C- kids are going to get through college, because I'm paying! I'm not pushing it off to some other guy to pay for it. that is personal responsibility to a T.

And I'm one of those "poorer" kids (not bottom 10% but maybe 40th percentile) that worked his ass off and got straight A's in high school and got all sorts of scholarships and paid his own way through two degrees. But I could still see the system was rigged. I was working work study and summers and Christmas break while the rich kids didn't have to worry about any of that. The rich kids that were 95% of my classmates had all gone to better schools than me, had been exposed to better opportunities than me, had all sorts of better support than me. They weren't having to share books with classmates or going around trying to buy stuff secondhand to get by.

so you mad because we are differnt and you had to work harder? This is that bullshyt I'm talking about. Suck it up. The ones who swim will swim, the ones who can't won't , it' simple as that. There's nothing racist or classist about it, it's all numbers (while i recognize there could be racism at certain institutions the fact that you can pay or not is not racist in itself).

And I know I have a brain well into the top 1% - you can't expect every damn kid to have to have that shyt to succeed.

Yeah, college isn't for every kid. But right now we have a racist, classist system where the kids who don't get to go are the ones poorer and darker than everyone else. I never hear rich White parents say, "College isn't for everyone, Johnny, maybe you should just go to welding school."

that's the capitalist manifesto

"College isn't for everyone!" (only the rich whites)

"Health care isn't a right!" (unless you rich and white)

"Getting free shyt makes you spoiled and lazy!" (unless you inherit it from your rich white parents, then we better make sure you get every penny)

They on some bullshyt with all that. We can pay for military bases all over the damn world and entire new trillion-dollar fighter jets when our old ones are hardly ever used because they're ALREADY light-years better than anything anyone we have any chance of having a war with will use, but we don't have money for education and health care? Come on now.

[/quote]

getting free shyt does make you spoiled and lazy, there's a saftey net (welfare) and it's been the biggest disruptor in the black community...why work if it's free? why perform well in highschool , if your next step (college) is free? You de-incentivizing the whole program. This is straight out of communism and we all know it doesn't work unless you're FORCED to work. If there's a corn field and everyone eats free, how do you ensure everyone goes into the field to pick corn ? Why should I pick 10 pieces of corn and you get to chill out in the shade and then when its time to eat you show up?

This is the america progressive prefer...and it will falter the foundations of america if seen fully through. The only time I'd support this, is when the robots take over and there literally no reason for man to work LOL.

 

[Perfectson]

The quality of education varies from city to city and state to state

I went to PS 235 in Brooklyn as a kid. My homeroom teacher (Ms. Gathers) was VERY afro-centric and we spent all of 5th grade working on a Genealogy Project in order to construct our family trees.

We watched Roots all of that year

We watched "X"

We read Animal Farm

I didn't go to a charter school. And it wasn't a private school either. A regular old Public school where the parents DEMANDED that we get the best possible education in order to prepare us.

Every city and state doesn't have this. There are districts in Texas and other deep south states where they're literally trying to erase Slavery, convert it to "indentured servitude", erase the Trail of Tears, erase all those little things that America doesn't like to think about it.

It's more than the money....there are schools in Baltimore that legit don't have heat during the winter...why?

you bolded the piece you wanted to argue but ignored the solution i posted, which was to invest more into K-12.

I don't see how what Ms Gathers taught you is relevant in this discussion but everyone is throwing personal anecdotes around so I'll say this. I went ot a substandard highschool, so did my sister, both of us did well on ACT both got full rides. I played around in HS had bad study habits, went to college and intially was put on probation cuz I tried to do what I did in HS to College. That was my fault, I had no personal responsibility, my parent saw good grades and thought he's okay but I needed to man up and put the additional work to sustain. I also worked through college and did a work study. I went too an HBCU and then went to a private school ( I regret the HBCU though now that I'm woke). So no one can tell me personal responsiblity doesn't play the biggest role in your education , starting with you and your parents. If your parent value education (and you're not just a dumb ass) you will get an opportunity in college for free or with some partial scholarship /financial aid.

 

[Perfectson]

I think a discussion is appropriate, because you seem to be unaware of a lot of the facts about what is going on.

If you are a citizen, and an ICE agent happens to arrest you because you are too Black or too Brown or have an accent or share the same last name as an illegal immigrant, do you believe you are entitled to Due Process? Do you believe you have Constitutional Rights?

Guess what - you don't. They don't have to have reasonable cause to arrest you. They don't have to follow due process to deport you. They don't have to read your Miranda Rights and they don't have to allow you representation by a lawyer. And they might drop your ass off in the middle of nowhere in some country you ain't never even been to, which certainly constitutes cruel and unusual punishment. And right now Trump is even trying to get citizenship stripped from actual citizens - two cases at least have already gone through and he has over two dozen lawyers working on more.

That's what happens when you create a Gestapo-like body like ICE that operates completely outside of the authority of the DOJ and which doesn't have to follow the rules of the other federal law enforcement bodies.

Does that sound good to you?

Receipts for ICE arresting, detaining, and even deporting American citizens:

Ice held a Black American man in custody for 1,273 days. He's not the only one who had to prove his citizenship.

Ice agents are out of control. And they are only getting worse | Trevor Timm

ICE wrongfully detained nearly 1500 Americans, sometimes for months or years

In America, Naturalized Citizens No Longer Have an Assumption of Permanence



So far as saying that people who overstay their visas are "Illegal immigrants", you said they had crossed the border illegally, and they had not. They hadn't even committed a crime - it's no crime to overstay your visa, it's a simple infraction, just like a traffic violation. I've even overstayed my visa before in another country cause I couldn't get to the capital and extend it at the right time. So I just showed up two weeks later and paid my fine and paid for an extension retroactively. It wasn't a big deal, and no one would have been dumb enough to call me an "illegal immigrant."

Your claim that no other country operates like the USA is bullshyt. Have you lived in other countries? The USA has one of the most difficult asylum processes in the world, and the current anti-immigrant regime is as strong as any Western nation.

Do you realize that up until 1917, 98% of the people who came to Ellis Island were let in? You didn't need preapproval, you didn't need a visa, you just needed to not be sick or a criminal. But some of the White people in charge didn't like that too many darker people were getting in, so they OPENLY stated that we needed to pass racist laws so only the "right" people were let in. They had already banned Chinese, in 1924 they banned the rest of the Asians and Arabs and severely limited the Southern and Eastern Europeans (back then those weren't "White" enough for them either). And ever since then, they've just found sneakier ways to enforce what is obviously an openly racist immigration policy.

Her calling for the abolishment is what is wrong with America. ICE needs to be tweaked, same way policing in urban cities need to be tweaked. You don't jsut remove the apparatus, it's ignorant. So that's the point I'm arguing, not arguing that ICE is perfect and does everything right. but you're choosing to ignore that. The fact is if you have identification or credentials the you or the government has failed you, because there's no way a citizen should be in the US without thorough vetting.

Look it's not perfect, we need a better central database but I'm sure a$$holes will come up to reasons why not to do this, which is why ICE is out there putting in work!

Now to address why I called your statement BS

1) You said the majority of people caught by ICE are citizens, that's false. I hate to play semantics because you misspoke but you asked for the discusison.

2) You don't know how the quotas are set each year first of all. 2nd of all there is a general line to apply from, people choose not to utilize it and enter illegally. There are several ways to enter legally. One of the issues with ICE is that the parents are illegal and the kids are legal, IMO the kids should be illegal too. LOL, maybe I'm an a$$hole but your parent did a crime and of course Democrats don't want any punishment for the crime. That's my issue going back tot he progressive discucssion, lot of free shyt, no personal accountability or responsibility and that's that. I don't see how you don't see it's as ridiculous as the tea partiers, who also had no idea of the working of economics or government and just were spouting shyt their base wanted to hear even if it made no damn sense.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

it's no crime to overstay your visa

This is how you know someone is lying

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

No!

Our academic scores of our middle schools and highschools or dropping (and those are free). How does that make sense to now make the next level free too? I don't see how that helps, if you haven't learned the basics in HS and middleschool, more than likely it's not going to change in college. Sure there's anamolies who were bad HS students and made it either in college or as entrepreneurs but that's not generally the case. The issue here and with most progressive, it's all about what can they get for free without any personal responsiblity. So of course they want to fukk around in HS and then get rewarded with free college, so they can sleep in their parents basement for an additional 4-6 years. I'm obviously being extreme here but the answer to me and common sense to me, is to put more money into K-12 and streghten those ecosystems first.

It's free stuff, because those people going to college aren't paying for it!

I'll gladly pay for defense. again, I mention this to someone prior. When Pearl Harbor happened, Americans thought we were neutral and then Japanese just came dropping bombs. So we need to be ahead because it's an aggressive world out there and defense spending makes sense. You can say we shouldn't be the world police and we can argue til we are blue in the face about how much we should spend on it, but to get a question on how we would pay for free colleges and the remark is "we spend on defense, so we should figure it out" is lackadaisical , naive, and unprofessional. I'm happy someone that is representative of the community got elected but she's on the big stage and needs to polish up how responses and begin to figure out how she can successful impact her state instead of being a class president who promised free snacks out the vending machine for anyone who voted for him/her.

Basically AOC is acting like she lives in either Latin America or Europe...not the USA...and she's in for a rough landing if she doesn't sharpen up

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Uh if our academic scores continue to drop isn't that a case for more schooling aka free college?
I don't know what you are getting at regarding Japan attacking Pearl Harbor. It was so we don't interfere in their planned conquest of Malaysia and the East Indies but I sure that's not what you are referring to so just tell us.
Donald Trump is president the litmus tests for smarts holding public office are over. lol Yes, free stuff or do you mean stuff we pay for with our taxes? People want it, not what we are currently getting (endless war aka bombs, tanks, nuclear weapons etc., tax cuts for rich folks, bailouts for banks and quantitative easing). We are supposed to have e a representative government not one tells us what's good for us.

this makes no sense

Even if I agreed with you on free "schooling" your premise does not follow.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

From what I've heard, Progressives are pushing for Barbara Lee to run but she hasn't given indications that she actually intends to. It sounds similar to the situation with Warren prior to the Primary for 2016 where progressives wanted an option and encouraged her to run but she wouldn't commit.

Bingo.

I like Barbara Lee, but she doesn't want it

 

[AnonymityX1000]

No!

Our academic scores of our middle schools and highschools or dropping (and those are free). How does that make sense to now make the next level free too? I don't see how that helps, if you haven't learned the basics in HS and middleschool, more than likely it's not going to change in college. Sure there's anamolies who were bad HS students and made it either in college or as entrepreneurs but that's not generally the case. The issue here and with most progressive, it's all about what can they get for free without any personal responsiblity. So of course they want to fukk around in HS and then get rewarded with free college, so they can sleep in their parents basement for an additional 4-6 years. I'm obviously being extreme here but the answer to me and common sense to me, is to put more money into K-12 and streghten those ecosystems first.

It's free stuff, because those people going to college aren't paying for it!

I'll gladly pay for defense. again, I mention this to someone prior. When Pearl Harbor happened, Americans thought we were neutral and then Japanese just came dropping bombs. So we need to be ahead because it's an aggressive world out there and defense spending makes sense. You can say we shouldn't be the world police and we can argue til we are blue in the face about how much we should spend on it, but to get a question on how we would pay for free colleges and the remark is "we spend on defense, so we should figure it out" is lackadaisical , naive, and unprofessional. I'm happy someone that is representative of the community got elected but she's on the big stage and needs to polish up how responses and begin to figure out how she can successful impact her state instead of being a class president who promised free snacks out the vending machine for anyone who voted for him/her.

We spend more on defense than the next 9 highest defense budgets of other countries COMBINED! So yes, she is talking about how much we spend on it. This is part of the 'blue in the face' arguments man. We don't need to spend as much as we do it's obvious. So the next logical questions is what do we spend it on?
Your whole perspective to college/higher education I don't agree with. Do you really think college students do better cause they are paying? I really didn't see the correlation in my experience. People blew off work and had it as a 2nd to 3rd priority regardless who was paying. We can strengthen K-12 and have free college man, it's not mutually exclusive. If you don't learn the basics or graduate HS yeah you can't go to college. We are not talking about loosening admission policies. We are talking about those who qualify to go being able to regardless of economic standing.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

We spend more on defense than the next 9 highest defense budgets of other countries COMBINED! So yes, she is talking about how much we spend on it. This is part of the 'blue in the face' arguments man. We don't need to spend as much as we do it's obvious. So the next logical questions is what do we spend it on?
Your whole perspective to college/higher education I don't agree with. Do you really think college students do better cause they are paying? I really didn't see the correlation in my experience. People blew off work and had it as a 2nd to 3rd priority regardless who was paying. We can strengthen K-12 and have free college man, it's not mutually exclusive. If you don't learn the basics or graduate HS yeah you can't go to college. We are not talking about loosening admission policies. We are talking about those who qualify to go being able to regardless of economic standing.

This is what I was alluding to in the last sentence of my post

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY

If I'm not mistaken, in places like the Caribbean and the UK, school is free IF YOU QUALIFY...Common Entrance and what not

It's a combo of both, yes, the kids need parents who give a shyt, but they also need facilities and instructors who give a shyt

 

[Professor Emeritus]

you're trying to play semantics. What I posted in the makeup of the country, there's a reason why Dems were able to take the country back in Congress. How republicans vote has nothing to do with what we are posting about. if you're going to debate, don't draw up red herrrings and try to lure me into an arguement about it.

It has everything to do with what we are talking about. A vote for Republicans was a vote for proto-fascist nationalism, because EVERY Republican in the Congress/Senate is currently giving a green light to the Chief Executive who favors proto-fascist nationalism. It doesn't matter what they believe in their dear little hearts, that is literally what their vote does.

instead of pulling random stats, understand common sense first. 10% of the income bracket, what type of schools do you think they are going to? You are comparing graduation rates and performance of students but disregarding that they aren't going to the same QUALITY of schools. of course the top 10% of the income brack have higher graduation rates, they send their kids to 60k a year private schools who literally are the pool of the students that go to IVY league schools, those that don't are well prepped for college academics.

Come on breh, look at the numbers. Only a tiny fraction of students go to Ivy League schools, 98% of the top-10% are looking at other options. And these nice high schools all have mad crazy grade inflation because those helicopter parents don't take shyt, not to mention they can get you all the tutors in the world. If you are earning a C- with all those advantages, you ain't trying.

Also your last stat is meangingless, personal responsibility is that your parents help pay for school and if I'm a high income earner of course my dumb C- kids are going to get through college, because I'm paying! I'm not pushing it off to some other guy to pay for it. that is personal responsibility to a T.

"Personal responsibility is getting everything done for you by your rich parents."

Words mean nothing anymore.

so you mad because we are differnt and you had to work harder? This is that bullshyt I'm talking about. Suck it up. The ones who swim will swim, the ones who can't won't , it' simple as that. There's nothing racist or classist about it, it's all numbers (while i recognize there could be racism at certain institutions the fact that you can pay or not is not racist in itself).

I worked my ass off and I still only made it because I came from a stable situation and my family didn't have no real problems and I'm smart as fukk. I know there are millions of kids who aren't as lucky as me.

At the elite school I went to, there was ONE Latina chick who came from the hood. ONE. That was the ONLY girl I knew who was poorer than me, the ONLY student who got more financial aid than me. And I was wealthier than damn near half of Americans. Are you claiming that half of Americans are lazy?

If that's really your answer, then I know who the actual lazy one is.

And the average White family has 80 times more wealth than the average Black family, as a direct result of slavery, segregation, and racist policies post-segregation. Basing college attendance and success on where you lived and whether you can pay or not IS paying off the direct fruits of racism.

getting free shyt does make you spoiled and lazy, there's a saftey net (welfare) and it's been the biggest disruptor in the black community...why work if it's free? why perform well in highschool , if your next step (college) is free? You de-incentivizing the whole program. This is straight out of communism and we all know it doesn't work unless you're FORCED to work.

Total bullshyt - if it were true, then the richest kids wouldn't work, because school is effectively free for them, right?

There are tons of countries with free or basically free college education available - Norway, Finland, Germany, and France are among them (Australia used to be). Do you see their students de-incentivized? Their economies collapse? Do they look like communists?

You know what de-incentivizes kids in real life? When they can't even imagine going to college, or feel like even if they get into college, they won't be able to afford it, or it won't matter because even if they graduate they won't get a good job. THAT'S some real-life disincentive right there.

This is the america progressive prefer...and it will falter the foundations of america if seen fully through. The only time I'd support this, is when the robots take over and there literally no reason for man to work LOL.

There literally IS no reason for us to work half as hard as we do. Over 50% of what the economy produces is total bullshyt, things made literally just to break or go obsolete or go out of style just to be replaced by the next thing. And that goes for service-based jobs too, because the vast majority of services are trying to sell you on some bullshyt you don't need.

The robots ARE out there. They're called computers, tractors, trucks, factory assembly lines, self-checkout counters, and a thousand other things that should have replaced work. Our work weeks should be 1/3 the size they are with all of the labor-saving devices out there. You know why they're not? Because there are very wealthy people on the top who want to make more and more wealthy off the labor of other people, and they will continue controlling the means of production for their own profit indefinitely. That's why no matter how many robots are put out there, no matter how much labor is replaced, work weeks don't shrink. They just force us to figure out some other bullshyt to do for their benefit, that's the system.

I ain't gonna be a part of it.

 

[Perfectson]

We spend more on defense than the next 9 highest defense budgets of other countries COMBINED! So yes, she is talking about how much we spend on it. This is part of the 'blue in the face' arguments man. We don't need to spend as much as we do it's obvious. So the next logical questions is what do we spend it on?
Your whole perspective to college/higher education I don't agree with. Do you really think college students do better cause they are paying? I really didn't see the correlation in my experience. People blew off work and had it as a 2nd to 3rd priority regardless who was paying. We can strengthen K-12 and have free college man, it's not mutually exclusive. If you don't learn the basics or graduate HS yeah you can't go to college. We are not talking about loosening admission policies. We are talking about those who qualify to go being able to regardless of economic standing.

I'm sure i can dig up studies that show if you have skin the game you will do better, but I would actually hope common sense here would prevail. Do you realistically believe that someone spending $30K doesn't have an incentive to do better than someone who is receiving it for free (all else being equal)? I'm not asking for stats or idealogy , I'm just asking if that makes common sense to you?

 

[Perfectson]

It has everything to do with what we are talking about. A vote for Republicans was a vote for proto-fascist nationalism, because EVERY Republican in the Congress/Senate is currently giving a green light to the Chief Executive who favors proto-fascist nationalism. It doesn't matter what they believe in their dear little hearts, that is literally what their vote does.

this is 100% wrong and you know it.

Come on breh, look at the numbers. Only a tiny fraction of students go to Ivy League schools, 98% of the top-10% are looking at other options. And these nice high schools all have mad crazy grade inflation because those helicopter parents don't take shyt, not to mention they can get you all the tutors in the world. If you are earning a C- with all those advantages, you ain't trying.

wrong there is a fact some people aren't good students no matter what setting they go into, a C- doesn't mean they aren't trying. I don't see how this is relevant either though.

"Personal responsibility is getting everything done for you by your rich parents."

that sounds like parents are taking responsibility for their KIDS

I worked my ass off and I still only made it because I came from a stable situation and my family didn't have no real problems and I'm smart as fukk. I know there are millions of kids who aren't as lucky as me.

despite you "making it" you still have this backwards mindset as your success is luck. This is what's wrong with America btw, you believe everything is rigged against you so much that you're "lucky" that you got an education and made it. No hard work or parental motivation involved, it's luck. You're trying to remove personal responsiblity and initiative out of the conversation because it doesn't fit your paradigm and you're actually a beacon of why not to make shyt free in actuality.

At the elite school I went to, there was ONE Latina chick who came from the hood. ONE. That was the ONLY girl I knew who was poorer than me, the ONLY student who got more financial aid than me. And I was wealthier than damn near half of Americans. Are you claiming that half of Americans are lazy?

the numbers don't like, lol. Education is down and Obesity is up! Most countries you have to work to make a living and that's a driving motivator. Go to Japan, you'll see a stark difference in the worklife balance and the education of the kids.

If that's really your answer, then I know who the actual lazy one is.

that's really poor form on your behalf

And the average White family has 80 times more wealth than the average Black family, as a direct result of slavery, segregation, and racist policies post-segregation. Basing college attendance and success on where you lived and whether you can pay or not IS paying off the direct fruits of racism.

Total bullshyt - if it were true, then the richest kids wouldn't work, because school is effectively free for them, right?

There are tons of countries with free or basically free college education available - Norway, Finland, Germany, and France are among them (Australia used to be). Do you see their students de-incentivized? Their economies collapse? Do they look like communists?

Outside of Germany, the answer is YES! France economy is in ruins LMFAO. norway and finlanders leave in hordes to come to the US for jobs (and elswhere in the EU) because the attraction for an educated workforce is higher in the US. Germany literally did this 4 years ago, so we will see how they fare....remmeber they had this almost a 100 years ago as one of the first socialist states, which gave rise to Nazi germany but you know who cares about the details.

You know what de-incentivizes kids in real life? When they can't even imagine going to college, or feel like even if they get into college, they won't be able to afford it, or it won't matter because even if they graduate they won't get a good job. THAT'S some real-life disincentive right there.

well then, there's several menial jobs that kid can do that currently is going to illegals. Hopefully he takes that opportunity instead of applying for welfare and continuing the circle of welfare state.

There literally IS no reason for us to work half as hard as we do. Over 50% of what the economy produces is total bullshyt, things made literally just to break or go obsolete or go out of style just to be replaced by the next thing. And that goes for service-based jobs too, because the vast majority of services are trying to sell you on some bullshyt you don't need.

LOL - this has nothing to do with anything but funny nonetheless

The robots ARE out there. They're called computers, tractors, trucks, factory assembly lines, self-checkout counters, and a thousand other things that should have replaced work. Our work weeks should be 1/3 the size they are with all of the labor-saving devices out there. You know why they're not? Because there are very wealthy people on the top who want to make more and more wealthy off the labor of other people, and they will continue controlling the means of production for their own profit indefinitely. That's why no matter how many robots are put out there, no matter how much labor is replaced, work weeks don't shrink. They just force us to figure out some other bullshyt to do for their benefit, that's the system.

I ain't gonna be a part of it.

Yet the unemployment rate is at an all time low (thanks to Obama)

 

[AnonymityX1000]

It has everything to do with what we are talking about. A vote for Republicans was a vote for proto-fascist nationalism, because EVERY Republican in the Congress/Senate is currently giving a green light to the Chief Executive who favors proto-fascist nationalism. It doesn't matter what they believe in their dear little hearts, that is literally what their vote does.





Come on breh, look at the numbers. Only a tiny fraction of students go to Ivy League schools, 98% of the top-10% are looking at other options. And these nice high schools all have mad crazy grade inflation because those helicopter parents don't take shyt, not to mention they can get you all the tutors in the world. If you are earning a C- with all those advantages, you ain't trying.




"Personal responsibility is getting everything done for you by your rich parents."

Words mean nothing anymore.




I worked my ass off and I still only made it because I came from a stable situation and my family didn't have no real problems and I'm smart as fukk. I know there are millions of kids who aren't as lucky as me.

At the elite school I went to, there was ONE Latina chick who came from the hood. ONE. That was the ONLY girl I knew who was poorer than me, the ONLY student who got more financial aid than me. And I was wealthier than damn near half of Americans. Are you claiming that half of Americans are lazy?

If that's really your answer, then I know who the actual lazy one is.

And the average White family has 80 times more wealth than the average Black family, as a direct result of slavery, segregation, and racist policies post-segregation. Basing college attendance and success on where you lived and whether you can pay or not IS paying off the direct fruits of racism.




Total bullshyt - if it were true, then the richest kids wouldn't work, because school is effectively free for them, right?

There are tons of countries with free or basically free college education available - Norway, Finland, Germany, and France are among them (Australia used to be). Do you see their students de-incentivized? Their economies collapse? Do they look like communists?

You know what de-incentivizes kids in real life? When they can't even imagine going to college, or feel like even if they get into college, they won't be able to afford it, or it won't matter because even if they graduate they won't get a good job. THAT'S some real-life disincentive right there.




There literally IS no reason for us to work half as hard as we do. Over 50% of what the economy produces is total bullshyt, things made literally just to break or go obsolete or go out of style just to be replaced by the next thing. And that goes for service-based jobs too, because the vast majority of services are trying to sell you on some bullshyt you don't need.

The robots ARE out there. They're called computers, tractors, trucks, factory assembly lines, self-checkout counters, and a thousand other things that should have replaced work. Our work weeks should be 1/3 the size they are with all of the labor-saving devices out there. You know why they're not? Because there are very wealthy people on the top who want to make more and more wealthy off the labor of other people, and they will continue controlling the means of production for their own profit indefinitely. That's why no matter how many robots are put out there, no matter how much labor is replaced, work weeks don't shrink. They just force us to figure out some other bullshyt to do for their benefit, that's the system.

I ain't gonna be a part of it.

Yes, a very real thing even Black, middle class and poor people have been brainwashed into believing is the meritocracy is real. It's not, it is all bullshyt to make you feel like the system is somewhat fair.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Her calling for the abolishment is what is wrong with America. ICE needs to be tweaked, same way policing in urban cities need to be tweaked. You don't jsut remove the apparatus, it's ignorant.

So if even ICE agents themselves are calling for ICE to be broken up, are they ignorant too?

ICE is not doing what it was intended to do. It was supposed to keep Americans safe by tracking bad guys, not tearing families apart and raiding hardworking people at their jobs. It was part of the Patriot Act, for crying out loud, it's under Homeland Security. What it's doing now is horrific mission creep, and you can't just "tweek" it back.

Why can't ICE be abolished, with actual anti-terrorism efforts placed into the relevant Homeland Security Agencies and immigration enforcement placed back under the DOJ where it always was until 13 years ago?

1) You said the majority of people caught by ICE are citizens, that's false. I hate to play semantics because you misspoke but you asked for the discusison.

We want to play semantics now? Okay, I'll play along. I NEVER said that the majority of people caught by ICE are citizens. THAT is a lie on your part, and proves that you neither are parsing the discussion correctly nor do you understand the problems I'm highlighting.

Now, let's play semantics on your statements:

ICE wouldn't be necessary if people followed the laws of entering the US.

False, as I already pointed out to you, since most illegal immigrants entered legally, simple legal entry is NOT enough to avoid ICE's mission.

no citizens aren't being removed.

False, I posted receipts already that prove that even citizens are being arrested, detained, and even deported by ICE.

Lol at over stayed theirs visas...thats called being illegal. The fact that you don't understand that is why it's pointless to have a discussion on this.

I'm the one who was pointing that out in the first place. I showed you that they were under ICE's mission even though they had entered legally. The fact that you didn't understand that is indicative of why you aren't learning from this discussion yet.

2) You don't know how the quotas are set each year first of all. 2nd of all there is a general line to apply from, people choose not to utilize it and enter illegally. There are several ways to enter legally.

The quotas have NOTHING to do with how many illegal immigrants are in the country.

And what is this "general line" you speak of. There is no "general line" application for getting a green card, so what specific green card application process are you referring to that you think you can describe as a line?

One of the issues with ICE is that the parents are illegal and the kids are legal, IMO the kids should be illegal too. LOL, maybe I'm an a$$hole but your parent did a crime and of course Democrats don't want any punishment for the crime.

By "Democrats" you mean "Supreme Court precedent for over 100 years".

And as I pointed out to you already, in many cases their parents didn't do a crime. Overstaying your visa is not a crime. Even illegal entry is only a misdemeanor. You do realize that if kids born in the country had their citizenship stripped, in many cases they'd be deported to a nation they had never known and may even be stateless and not have citizenship ANYWHERE. All because they committed the crime of being born.

That's my issue going back tot he progressive discucssion, lot of free shyt, no personal accountability or responsibility and that's that. I don't see how you don't see it's as ridiculous as the tea partiers, who also had no idea of the working of economics or government and just were spouting shyt their base wanted to hear even if it made no damn sense.

Are you acountable for what your ancestors did? If we Me and 23 your ass and we find any colonizers in that bloodline, can we ship you out too?