all jay z jokes aside, in reality, jay z is top 5 of all time. no matter what era

[raoulduke187]

well, no

 

[FS4LFE]

The thing about Jay Z is he's quickly approaching that point where he's been average or even bad for longer than he's been good.

When that happens, sometimes you need to make some room for others who are putting out great music as well.

He's been rapping for over 20 years. Every album won't be a hit. Y'all nikkas are weird.

 

[Freshology]

Rakim
KRS One
Pac
Biggie
Big L
Big Daddy Kane
Kool G rap
Eazy E
Scarface
Eminem
Ice Cube
Snoop
LL Cool J
Run DMC
Kool Moe Dee
Melle Mel
Kool Keith
Black Thought
Common


All are more legendary than Jay Z

Think you're confusing your preferences with what's/ who's legendary.

For surely.

He's pissed me off by his ways and I think he is a weirdo but he's on some other shyt but blueprint? rd? Undeniable

Think this is the real reason why a lot of the people that "dislike" Jay don't rate him as an elite rapper. They can't separate the man from his work

 

[OfTheCross]

I can't believe I missed this thread.

I'll be around dapping and commenting these evening.

 

[Pifferry]

Absolutely not.
He never came close to rapping as well as he did on RD.

I an believe he didn't come to that level of songwriting (I don't agree though).
But there's not a single aspect of rhyming that Jay Z didn't improve on post Reasonable Doubt, which isn't a knock on it, it's my favorite album of all time.
But the only way I can see someone saying he didn't improve on any aspects of rhyming is if they're a casual Jay Z listener.
His style became more varied, used less inane words for filler in rhyming, his rhymes became cleverer, entendre's, metaphors, puns, etc, all became even higher points of focus than they were on RD (which was already high) and he changed his style to fit that more.
Don't see how songs like No Hook, or the Dynasty Intro/The Prelude, or Imaginary Player/Where I'm From, or There's Been a Murder, or December 4th/Allure aren't rapping on par with what was on Reasonable Doubt.
Reasonable Doubt Jay wasn't capable of dropping verses in the style that he did on the Go Crazy remix, that's progression (not to say he didn't have stuff as clever on the album, i'm more referring to the style and the way he used the techniques, not saying it's better)

 

[mobbinfms]

I an believe he didn't come to that level of songwriting (I don't agree though).
But there's not a single aspect of rhyming that Jay Z didn't improve on post Reasonable Doubt, which isn't a knock on it, it's my favorite album of all time.
But the only way I can see someone saying he didn't improve on any aspects of rhyming is if they're a casual Jay Z listener.
His style became more varied, used less inane words for filler in rhyming, his rhymes became cleverer, entendre's, metaphors, puns, etc, all became even higher points of focus than they were on RD (which was already high) and he changed his style to fit that more.
Don't see how songs like No Hook, or the Dynasty Intro/The Prelude, or Imaginary Player/Where I'm From, or There's Been a Murder, or December 4th/Allure aren't rapping on par with what was on Reasonable Doubt.
Reasonable Doubt Jay wasn't capable of dropping verses in the style that he did on the Go Crazy remix, that's progression (not to say he didn't have stuff as clever on the album, i'm more referring to the style and the way he used the techniques, not saying it's better)

I'm not saying Jay completely fell off post RD. Jay was still vicious all the way up to MCHG. Jay at level 8 is still better than 99% of the game.
And I'm not saying every verse on RD is better than every verse he's done since. I'm saying that he never rhymed on that sustained level of excellence over an entire project.
Where you see a more varied style - I see him not rhyming with that crazy RD flow that he had...so it could just be a preference as well. But its more than style/delivery. His shyt was so consistently layered and intricate on that album. Not to say he didn't go back to that here and there - but never to that degree over an entire project.

 

[Prince Cairo]

He's been rapping for over 20 years. Every album won't be a hit. Y'all nikkas are weird.

That's true. But when the albums start to decrease in quality as time goes on, shouldn't we at least reevaluate his position relative to others?

I think you're crazy if you think anything post Black Album is "Top Five of All Time" quality. And he's put out a lot of music since.

 

[Easy-E]

The thing about Jay Z is he's quickly approaching that point where he's been average or even bad for longer than he's been good.

When that happens, sometimes you need to make some room for others who are putting out great music as well.

This

He got as many bad albums as he does average.

As a former Jay Stan (still love the music, I just grew up); he biggest knock is all the Pop in his catalog.

I

 

[Cloud McFly]

That's true. But when the albums start to decrease in quality as time goes on, shouldn't we at least reevaluate his position relative to others?

I think you're crazy if you think anything post Black Album is "Top Five of All Time" quality. And he's put out a lot of music since.

American Gangster (classic to me) and Watch The Throne are both great albums.

This

He got as many bad albums as he does average.

As a former Jay Stan (still love the music, I just grew up); he biggest knock is all the Pop in his catalog.

I

IMO the only bad/below average albums in his discography are BP2 amd MCHG

 

[Pifferry]

I'm not saying Jay completely fell off post RD. Jay was still vicious all the way up to MCHG. Jay at level 8 is still better than 99% of the game.
And I'm not saying every verse on RD is better than every verse he's done since. I'm saying that he never rhymed on that sustained level of excellence over an entire project.
Where you see a more varied style - I see him not rhyming with that crazy RD flow that he had...so it could just be a preference as well. But its more than style/delivery. His shyt was so consistently layered and intricate on that album. Not to say he didn't go back to that here and there - but never to that degree over an entire project.

I would agree with you about sustaining that level of excellence over an entire project, but AG is just a smidgen behind RD personally, and while The Blueprint is more pop than RD he never really dipped in rhyming/song writing quality across it imo (aside from maybe Jigga That nikka).

 

[King Jove]

this why you can't have serious discussions in the booth about hip-hop, especially legacies. Its too many stans, haters, and trolls who just want to say outlandish shyt just to ruffle some feathers.

jay-z is a hip-hop legend and top 10 at least no matter how you slice it.

man said Big L is more legendary than Hova

and I'm a Big L fan too (RIP) but still

 

[mobbinfms]

I would agree with you about sustaining that level of excellence over an entire project, but AG is just a smidgen behind RD personally, and while The Blueprint is more pop than RD he never really dipped in rhyming/song writing quality across it imo (aside from maybe Jigga That nikka).

I don't know man...there were points in BP where he bounced up like a round ball to those Olympian Heights that he reached on RD - but you really think he was killing it like he was on RD? I'd say not even close. My biggest gripe with that album is that he was coasting on some songs. Those beats though
Got the CD in my car right now.
I'm not taking these Tribe CDs out anytime soon though

 

[ProfessionallyTrill]

this why you can't have serious discussions in the booth about hip-hop, especially legacies. Its too many stans, haters, and trolls who just want to say outlandish shyt just to ruffle some feathers.

jay-z is a hip-hop legend and top 10 at least no matter how you slice it.

man said Big L is more legendary than Hova

and I'm a Big L fan too (RIP) but still

Agreed. These dudes are either super stans or delusional.

 

[doublenegative]

Rakim
KRS One
Pac
Biggie
Big L
Big Daddy Kane
Kool G rap
Eazy E
Scarface
Eminem
Ice Cube
Snoop
LL Cool J
Run DMC
Kool Moe Dee
Melle Mel
Kool Keith
Black Thought
Common


All are more legendary than Jay Z

No

 

[Pifferry]

I don't know man...there were points in BP where he bounced up like a round ball to those Olympian Heights that he reached on RD - but you really think he was killing it like he was on RD? I'd say not even close. My biggest gripe with that album is that he was coasting on some songs. Those beats though
Got the CD in my car right now.
I'm not taking these Tribe CDs out anytime soon though

Do I think the level of rapping from a technical standpoint was on par with Reasonable Doubt?
No.
But the songwriting, the beats, and Jay's bravado all came together in order to create the perfect commercial rap album while still keeping the songs to a higher standard of quality than some people's non commercial material, a masterpiece really.
Hits on hits on hits.
So was Jay hitting us with Can I Lives and Dead Presidents?
No, that's God level, but The Blueprint was also God level imo, just an entirely different type of flexing.
I mean Jay wasn't flowing or giving you messages to chew on and think about on The Rulers Back like he was on Can't Knock The Hustle, but those opening bars still give me chills each time and are paced/delivered perfectly.
Or songs like Heart Of The City or U Don't Know, it could feel like the beats are carrying Jay like some people like to argue, but he just takes them to another level.
He's not trying to bog you down with all these double meanings and clues you find in the lyrics though they may be there, or fancy rhyme schemes.
But they're just written so well off jump
Never Change or Heart of The City are two good examples of that, try not to rap along with these songs.