Banks foreclosing on churches in record numbers

[David_TheMan]

Reality is that pastoring is a full time gig which is why most are paid. My father in law is a pastor of a church that started in his basement and now has hundreds of member. He's at the church from 6AM till 5 all week until Sunday afternoon. Counseling, mentoring, overseeing operations, etc. Like your pops he worked his whole life and made good money and saved up and even after the church grew he was going down to the city 2-3 days a week to work in his clothing store to supplement his income. But he's older now and overseeing a ministry with dozens of churches now in the US, Czech Republic, Uganda, DR of Congo, Tanzania and a few other countries. Point is the church is supposed to take care of the pastor so they don't have to worry about his finances

Nah it really isn't a full time gig, and if you help then you should help simply because that is what jesus supposedly told all his followers to do. You help your brother, you don't only help him and expect them to pay you.
Churches were never originated in Christianity to support a pastor, its to support the body of believers. Especially the black church which is based on the protestants who hated the idea of their being a supreme clergy class, which is why they did away with the ceremonial shyt the catholics still adopt.

 

[Jimi Swagger]

These black pastors know these stats....last church I went to last year...the pastor was going HARD on the money talk .....on the projector, they kept showing how you could text your tithes...u don't even gotta come to church...just text God's money


I'm actually thinking the for profit churches might be killing the competition.....people like that money talk more than that be like Jesus talk....some churches are growing while others are going outta business

Texting tithes and offering? That is savage as hell. Beats my aunt's church where the pastor stressed how tithes can be auto-deducted or reoccurring
Churches were crucial during slavery and reconstruction. Buying land, organizing, keeping records and connecting missing/sold relatives. The whole AME movement came out of protest from being as 2nd class when worshipping with Whites.

A catch 22 if the black churches are disproportionately affected as they were in home foreclosures. Black wealth that is dwindling away, especially if these churches are in historic or developing areas. Then again most nikkas I know (besides Catholics) attend church online or on Easter/special event anyway . You can still praise the lord in a small storefront church.

Edit: Or they do the early morning hour of power service so they can be home for the games.

 

[desjardins]

I bet the Pastor house ain't up for foreclosure

Fcuk them faggets, the black church is responsible for TRILLIONS of dollars from our community being inefficiently used over the last 50 years. Nikkas really out here giving 10% of their money (after taxes) to a non profit entity that teaches the same religion the slave master taught his children

 

[Verbal Kint]

Nah it really isn't a full time gig, and if you help then you should help simply because that is what jesus supposedly told all his followers to do. You help your brother, you don't only help him and expect them to pay you.
Churches were never originated in Christianity to support a pastor, its to support the body of believers. Especially the black church which is based on the protestants who hated the idea of their being a supreme clergy class, which is why they did away with the ceremonial shyt the catholics still adopt.

Dog that's blatantly incorrect. You're entitled to your opinion but none of that is even remotely true
1 - The NT actually instructs people to take care of the leader of their flock and gives instructions on what a pastor should do.
2 - Maybe your pops isn't doing much but for those I know it is absolutely a full time job and more. My father in law spends easily 30-40 hours a week doing things specifically related to the church and also writes, teaches and does speaking engagements related to the church. There's also the time spent preparing lessons and sermons. You must know some lazy pastors
3 - Churches have supported pastors since churches existed. Paul spoke on it. Read 1 Corinthians 9 if you actually care about being right about this

 

[Verbal Kint]

I bet the Pastor house ain't up for foreclosure

Fcuk them faggets, the black church is responsible for TRILLIONS of dollars from our community being inefficiently used over the last 50 years. Nikkas really out here giving 10% of their money (after taxes) to a non profit entity that teaches the same religion the slave master taught his children

Church has provided plenty of services to the community. And do you have any evidence that those that don't give money to a church do anything with that money that is more beneficial to their situation or their community? Folks spend more money on J's than they give to the church but ya'll wanna act like churches are keeping black folks in poverty

 

[Poitier]

TRILLIONS of dollars

 

[David_TheMan]

Dog that's blatantly incorrect. You're entitled to your opinion but none of that is even remotely true
1 - The NT actually instructs people to take care of the leader of their flock and gives instructions on what a pastor should do.
2 - Maybe your pops isn't doing much but for those I know it is absolutely a full time job and more. My father in law spends easily 30-40 hours a week doing things specifically related to the church and also writes, teaches and does speaking engagements related to the church. There's also the time spent preparing lessons and sermons. You must know some lazy pastors
3 - Churches have supported pastors since churches existed. Paul spoke on it. Read 1 Corinthians 9 if you actually care about being right about this

Not blantantly incorrect at all.

1) NT doesn't instruct people to even have a religious leader, other than Jesus Christ. There is no talk of providing for ministers, bishops, or any clergy. Jesus said god would provide for him and his followers the same way he provided for the birds in nature. Paul was a tentmaker and had an actual job to fund himself during his ministry as well. The structure of a church providing from a pastor originated with the catholic church and is very different from what is actually written in the bible. That is why when people finally became able to read the bible and not just take priests word for it, you had the Protestant revolution.

2) Your pops can do whatever he wants, pastoring isn't a full time job. It seems you want to try to make what I said an assault on your pops, but that isn't where I'm coming from. Your father can do what he likes though and if he is happy so be it. That said I've seen guys who tried to run the ship and be this that and everything, and I've seen guys who delegate and branch out with other churches to partner up and in effect lighten the individual work load of each church while still providing a network of support to aid not only their church but churches they partner up with. It isn't the same as a person working 40 hrs a week though. And speaking engagements aren't even part of the job, thats a side hustle shyt.

3) What church supported Jesus?
What did Jesus say about this

"These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them, saying, “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; 6 but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 “And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 “Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons; freely you received, freely give. 9 “Do not acquire gold, or silver, or copper for your money belts, 10 or a bag for your journey, or even two tunics, or sandals, or a staff; for the worker is worthy of his support. 11 “And into whatever city or village you enter, inquire who is worthy in it; and abide there until you go away," (Matt. 10:5-11).

Another funny thing is the 1 Corinthians 9 has the following verse.

But I have used none of these things. And I am not writing these things so that it will be done so in my case; for it would be better for me to die than have any man make my boast an empty one. For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel. For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me. What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

He literally argues why he isn't taking money to preach.

 

[David_TheMan]

Church has provided plenty of services to the community. And do you have any evidence that those that don't give money to a church do anything with that money that is more beneficial to their situation or their community? Folks spend more money on J's than they give to the church but ya'll wanna act like churches are keeping black folks in poverty

They can spend their money how they like, its their money.
This prosperity pimping preachers do keep the weak minded in financial peril though.
Instead of trying to guilt and lead these people to give the church money, so good will "bless" them with earthly reward, why not open a class to teach them basic personal finance lessons?

 

[LurkMoar]

People on here sound like Reddit cacs and clearly don't live around Blacks

Breh im telling you they have infiltrated this site in massive numbers

 

[Verbal Kint]

Not blantantly incorrect at all.

1) NT doesn't instruct people to even have a religious leader, other than Jesus Christ. There is no talk of providing for ministers, bishops, or any clergy. Jesus said god would provide for him and his followers the same way he provided for the birds in nature. Paul was a tentmaker and had an actual job to fund himself during his ministry as well. The structure of a church providing from a pastor originated with the catholic church and is very different from what is actually written in the bible. That is why when people finally became able to read the bible and not just take priests word for it, you had the Protestant revolution.

2) Your pops can do whatever he wants, pastoring isn't a full time job. It seems you want to try to make what I said an assault on your pops, but that isn't where I'm coming from. Your father can do what he likes though and if he is happy so be it. That said I've seen guys who tried to run the ship and be this that and everything, and I've seen guys who delegate and branch out with other churches to partner up and in effect lighten the individual work load of each church while still providing a network of support to aid not only their church but churches they partner up with. It isn't the same as a person working 40 hrs a week though. And speaking engagements aren't even part of the job, thats a side hustle shyt.

3) What church supported Jesus?
What did Jesus say about this


Another funny thing is the 1 Corinthians 9 has the following verse.


He literally argues why he isn't taking money to preach.

2 - again, you must associate with pastors that are either lazy or have tiny churches. I'm not taking anything as an assault, just explaining the amount of work that gets put in. A pastor doesn't delegate counseling and things of that nature. When you're counseling on a weekly basis multiple individuals and families as well as pre-marital stuff and training other ministers and also preparing for those sessions, you think that gets done in 10 hours a week? Cmon son

1 - you're completely misinterpreting what you quoted for support. Jesus was saying that those that received those who were preaching the gospel were to provide for them what they could. for the worker is worthy of his support. The preachers are the workers and they are worthy of the support of the people. They weren't to acquire gold because they would be provided for. In Luke 9 he said 'And whatever house you enter, stay there, and take your leave from there'. Again, saying they should be provided for.

When Jesus was preaching there were no churches. But after the resurrection churches popped up all over and they were obviously the recipients of Paul's letters and he instructs them to provide for those that preached the gospel

"Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing (oxen that worked the threshing floor - where grains were basically stomped to be loosened - were allowed to eat the grain as they were working and weren't muzzled so they couldn't eat the grain they were working),” and “The laborer is worthy of his wages.” - clearly Paul is saying the leaders should be provided for

11 If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we should reap material things from you? 12 If others share the right over you, do we not more? Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things, that we may cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ. - Paul is clearly saying that if someone preaches, teaches and provides you with spiritual benefit, they are worthy of material payment from you. BUT if they wont do so then he'll go without so as not to hinder the message

13 Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share with the altar? 14 So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel. - pretty clear

 

[Verbal Kint]

They can spend their money how they like, its their money.
This prosperity pimping preachers do keep the weak minded in financial peril though.
Instead of trying to guilt and lead these people to give the church money, so good will "bless" them with earthly reward, why not open a class to teach them basic personal finance lessons?

I agree those dudes are a plague

 

[David_TheMan]

2 - again, you must associate with pastors that are either lazy or have tiny churches. I'm not taking anything as an assault, just explaining the amount of work that gets put in. A pastor doesn't delegate counseling and things of that nature. When you're counseling on a weekly basis multiple individuals and families as well as pre-marital stuff and training other ministers and also preparing for those sessions, you think that gets done in 10 hours a week? Cmon son

1 - you're completely misinterpreting what you quoted for support. Jesus was saying that those that received those who were preaching the gospel were to provide for them what they could. for the worker is worthy of his support. The preachers are the workers and they are worthy of the support of the people. They weren't to acquire gold because they would be provided for. In Luke 9 he said 'And whatever house you enter, stay there, and take your leave from there'. Again, saying they should be provided for.

When Jesus was preaching there were no churches. But after the resurrection churches popped up all over and they were obviously the recipients of Paul's letters and he instructs them to provide for those that preached the gospel

"Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing (oxen that worked the threshing floor - where grains were basically stomped to be loosened - were allowed to eat the grain as they were working and weren't muzzled so they couldn't eat the grain they were working),” and “The laborer is worthy of his wages.” - clearly Paul is saying the leaders should be provided for

11 If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we should reap material things from you? 12 If others share the right over you, do we not more? Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things, that we may cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ. - Paul is clearly saying that if someone preaches, teaches and provides you with spiritual benefit, they are worthy of material payment from you. BUT if they wont do so then he'll go without so as not to hinder the message

13 Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share with the altar? 14 So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel. - pretty clear

1) You don't know what I associate with though, and to try to make a story up to justify your own belief and need for validation is telling. I hear what you are saying I just disagree.
A pastor is simply the person selected by the congregation, to do what they want or act on their behalf. If your dad makes it a full time job congrats, does it have to be, nope.

2) I'm not misinterpreting anything. This is what is written in the Bible and ascribed to Jesus as what he told his disciples after commissioning them. He told them specifically not to take money, that is explicit, I noticed you tried to ignore that verse though. The only support a preacher is to have is what is given to him by those who invited him in their homes to minister. If the town wasn't receptive Jesus told them to move on.

Jesus had a body of believers and that is what he calls the church. It isn't a local group, it isn't the folks on this corner and that corner, its the body of believers in him. So yes he had a church, which he refered to as his bride in his parables.

As for the different followers he had pockets that grew after the spread of his message and carried on by his followers from Jerusalem. They had different interpretations as well, that said I find it funny you have Paul saying he does not take money, he even has verses saying he robbed from other churches in accepting their donations to help him minister, and you have Jesus Christ himself who says his followers are not to take money for the faith and here you are trying hard to ignore what Jesus Christ himself said, to justify getting money. LOL.

Its even worse when you try to use Paul, when he specifically says he wants others to imitate him and not depend on the people to support the ministry. LOL

2 Thessalonians 3:7-10 New International Version (NIV)
7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

The real question is whose commands take precedence to you, Jesus or Paul?
At times they are very different, but Jesus's stance on money is pretty clear, with regard to the bible.

Matthew 6:19-21 English Standard Version (ESV)

19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rusta]">[a] destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

​

 

[Jean Jacket]

Church is always divisive, as it often denotes allegiance to a form of materialism and symbolism.
Black people always do the best that we can with what he have.

It's sad that over the years, the culture has become corrupted with people that don't put their people ahead of a building, planes, yachts or white Jesus.

 

[NZA]

on the projector, they kept showing how you could text your tithes...u don't even gotta come to church...just text God's money

 

[Verbal Kint]

1) You don't know what I associate with though, and to try to make a story up to justify your own belief and need for validation is telling. I hear what you are saying I just disagree.
A pastor is simply the person selected by the congregation, to do what they want or act on their behalf. If your dad makes it a full time job congrats, does it have to be, nope.

2) I'm not misinterpreting anything. This is what is written in the Bible and ascribed to Jesus as what he told his disciples after commissioning them. He told them specifically not to take money, that is explicit, I noticed you tried to ignore that verse though. The only support a preacher is to have is what is given to him by those who invited him in their homes to minister. If the town wasn't receptive Jesus told them to move on.

Jesus had a body of believers and that is what he calls the church. It isn't a local group, it isn't the folks on this corner and that corner, its the body of believers in him. So yes he had a church, which he refered to as his bride in his parables.

As for the different followers he had pockets that grew after the spread of his message and carried on by his followers from Jerusalem. They had different interpretations as well, that said I find it funny you have Paul saying he does not take money, he even has verses saying he robbed from other churches in accepting their donations to help him minister, and you have Jesus Christ himself who says his followers are not to take money for the faith and here you are trying hard to ignore what Jesus Christ himself said, to justify getting money. LOL.

Its even worse when you try to use Paul, when he specifically says he wants others to imitate him and not depend on the people to support the ministry. LOL


The real question is whose commands take precedence to you, Jesus or Paul?
At times they are very different, but Jesus's stance on money is pretty clear, with regard to the bible.

​

You made the statement that pastoring is not a full time job. I'm simply providing clear real world examples as to why it definitely is. Obviously some pastors work as well depending on the situation but many work full time in ministry and contrary to what you're saying they definitely do a full 40's worth or work. That's my point.
Every verse you're quoting clearly states that the teachers should be provided for. You're also ignoring the fact that later Jesus did instruct his disciples to take money belts with them so clearly he wasn't against having or making money. And the point of all of it was that the preachers of the gospel could and should be provided for by those they ministered to. Paul reinforced that while also saying that if it became a problem he would do other work, not because a minister wasn't doing work worthy of being provided for but for the sake of the gospel. So if a church can't pay a pastor or chooses not to then fine, that's their prerogative, but its not wrong to do so, especially when the pastor is doing worthy work that goes far beyond a sermon on Sunday morning.