Barry Bonds out here at 52 still hitting bombs

[mson]

Bonds, Manny, Clemens, IRod and ARod were HOF quality players before the juice.

Palmeiro is on the fence since he was more or less a DH and who knows how much the juice helped him in his 30s.

Bagwell wasn't.
Sosa wasn't.
Giambi and McGwire were vastly improved because of it.

I would add that Schilling was on the juice. And his loud denials don't fool me one bit.

When did Manny start taking it?

 

[Remote]

When did Manny start taking it?

It's hard to know exactly. There are no spikes in Manny's career that would indicate anything suspicious. He was always a tremendous hitter.
It was leaked that both Manny and David Ortiz tested positive in 2003 along with 101 other players, although "officially" that list was not corroborated.

At the very least we know he was on something in 2003.
But the way MLB handled that whole PED situation was horrendous.

First being that those 2003 survey test results were supposed to be sealed. Testing was to be random. A refusal or failure to take a test would automatically be counted as a positive test (a bit unfair depending on circumstances). And I thought the testing was supposed to be anonymous, although I can't seem to confirm that part of it. The point being that due to the CBA if 5% of players or more tested positive in 2003, it would kickstart random drug testing in 2004 and going forward. The 103 players that were leaked amount to roughly 14% of players (if you assume just the 750 active on MLB rosters at a given time). But we know that it was way more than 14% of players using PEDs in that era. So you have a big, BIG chunk of guys who tested positive but managed to avoid the heat. This is why you have to believe some agenda or politics was involved because a lot of guys were protected.

 

[Big Boss]

 

[JAY?]

It's hard to know exactly. There are no spikes in Manny's career that would indicate anything suspicious. He was always a tremendous hitter.
It was leaked that both Manny and David Ortiz tested positive in 2003 along with 101 other players, although "officially" that list was not corroborated.

At the very least we know he was on something in 2003.
But the way MLB handled that whole PED situation was horrendous.

First being that those 2003 survey test results were supposed to be sealed. Testing was to be random. A refusal or failure to take a test would automatically be counted as a positive test (a bit unfair depending on circumstances). And I thought the testing was supposed to be anonymous, although I can't seem to confirm that part of it. The point being that due to the CBA if 5% of players or more tested positive in 2003, it would kickstart random drug testing in 2004 and going forward. The 103 players that were leaked amount to roughly 14% of players (if you assume just the 750 active on MLB rosters at a given time). But we know that it was way more than 14% of players using PEDs in that era. So you have a big, BIG chunk of guys who tested positive but managed to avoid the heat. This is why you have to believe some agenda or politics was involved because a lot of guys were protected.

Manny is my cousin. He had played the same since he was a kid. He actually played better before any word of steroids.
And yeah it was suppose to be anonymous. It is a bit confusing as well as to why they took their names

 

[NoMoreWhiteWoman2020]

One of the goat swings


Griffey

Bonds

Gary( he had the Swing )

Them, Frank Thomas, Sammy Sosa, Albert Belle, and Juan Gonzalez. Best swings I have ever seen.

90s baseball >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[KingJudah2]

Absurd statement lol

nikka don't know shyt about baseball. The Rocket was for pitching what Bonds was for batting/fielding. HOF before peds

 

[waltthizzney]

never proven he cheated

 

[mastermind]

He didn't deserve any gold gloves. Ever.
Especially when John Olerud was in the same league.

You said he was one-way player when he received plautitudes for being one of the best defensive first basemen of his era. Stop changing the argument, you were wrong.

 

[Remote]

You said he was one-way player when he received plautitudes for being one of the best defensive first basemen of his era. Stop changing the argument, you were wrong.

He won a gold glove in a year he didn't even play first base.

Newsflash: most gold gloves are meaningless and go off perception/name recognition.

Derek Jeter won gold gloves. He was the worst defender maybe ever (as far as HOF SS go)

 

[mastermind]

He won a gold glove in a year he didn't even play first base.

Newsflash: most gold gloves are meaningless and go off perception/name recognition.

Derek Jeter won gold gloves. He was the worst defender maybe ever (as far as HOF SS go)

Hang on breh, are you old enough to have watched Palmeiro play in his prime?

You are the only person to say he was a one way player. Mark McGwire was one way player. Palmiero wasn't.

Just admit you were wrong.

 

[Remote]

Hang on breh, are you old enough to have watched Palmeiro play in his prime?

You are the only person to say he was a one way player. Mark McGwire was one way player. Palmiero wasn't.

Just admit you were wrong.

I'm almost 37.
Yes I saw Palmeiro play in his prime.

Never at any point in his career was he close to being an elite first baseman.

John Olerud, Mark Grace, JT Snow and Don Mattingly were far, FAR greater first basemen.

Don't let Palmeiro's offensive exploits fool you into thinking he was a good defender. He wasn't.

 

[mastermind]

Don't let Palmeiro's offensive exploits fool you into thinking he was a good defender. He wasn't.

you're a fool

Notice you moved from "he was a one way player" to now "he wasnt an elite defender at first base."

 

[Remote]

you're a fool

Notice you moved from "he was a one way player" to now "he wasnt an elite defender at first base."

Palmeiro came into the league at a time where by and large you didn't have players in their youth/primes as designated hitters. There were no Adam Dunns in the mid to late 80s.

Your DH back then was an older veteran who couldn't move.

As such, Rafael was tolerated at 1B because he could hit. But he wasn't a good fielder. Ever. He was a one way player.

There's a reason his HOF candidacy is tied to 500/3000. Because at 350/2200 he's an afterthought. There was no other aspect to his game

 

[mastermind]

But he wasn't a good fielder. Ever. He was a one way player.

this is just not true

 

[Remote]

this is just not true

Except it is.

So much so that in the winter of 1988 the Cubs decided that having a light hitting outfielder like Palmeiro wasn't worth having. Even tho he batted .307 at age 23.

A player doesn't move from the outfield to the infield because he's a good defender. He's hidden there if his bat is valuable. Which it was the moment Palmeiro got on the juice.