BBALLBREAKDOWN: Was Larry Bird Better Than LeBron James?

[Kill Dat Noize]

it's hard to pick but i would say at the very least lebron and bird are on the same tier.

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

Number don't lie, but they don't tell the whole story.


Stats are overrated.Bron has all these pretty numbers that look good at the end of the day, but I remember looking at him with the face at important times/games throughout his career.


Bird was a lil before my time.By the time I started watching basketball, he was on his way out.


So I never got to witness any moments from him.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Number don't lie, but they don't tell the whole story.


Stats are overrated.Bron has all these pretty numbers that look good at the end of the day, but I remember looking at him with the face at important times/games throughout his career.


Bird was a lil before my time.By the time I started watching basketball, he was on his way out.


So I never got to witness any moments from him.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Dirk gave Bron and the Heatles that work...can you imagine what Bird would have been doing in this era? Especially now that the 3 is so coveted?



I'll give him the edge on D, that's it, fukk all that stat padding bullshyt.



This.



I don't see how it's laughable though.

And while I know it's been done before, I've never seen anybody compare them with video like that, I figured it was worth a look just to see two of the GOATS get down. I think Lebron passes him just based on longevity and technicality (numbers) eventually but it's clear to me that Bird was a more skilled player and would have been on some other shyt in this era.

did you not read this post?Lebron is greater by almost every measure of impact

Ya'all can't really be trying to compare 1980s stats to 2000s stats straight-up.

First, he ignored that Lebron taking way more threes depresses his shooting average unfairly. Because of the threes, Lebron's TS% is actually 58.1%, well above Bird's 56.4%.

In '79-'80, when Bird came into the league, the average game had 220 possessions/game (counting shots and turnovers). By the time he retired in 1992 that had dropped to 210.

In '03-'04, when Lebron came into the league, the average game had 190 possessions/game. It dropped to 186 by '06 before rising to 197 now.


Bird's basically getting a 12% bump on every stat just because guys were running up and down the floor and letting the ball fly in the 1980s. The game was a lot more wide open.


By 100 possessions, the numbers are:

Lebron: 36.9 points, 9.7 boards, 9.4 assists, 2.3 steals, 1.1 blocks
Bird: 30.3 points, 12.5 boards, 7.9 assists, 2.1 steals, 1.0 blocks


Add in the better shooting, and Lebron kills Bird on the advanced stats.

PER: Lebron 27.7, Bird 23.5
Win shares/48: Lebron .240, Bird .203
BPM: Lebron 9.2, Bird 7.2
VORP: Lebron 108.6, Bird 79.7



The only thing Bird has is rebounding, and that was still an era where just being tall was enough to get you massive amounts of boards. People go on and on about all the "great big men" of that era, but that's because a 7' man with athleticism was automatically an NBA starter, and there were plenty of centers running around the same height as Bird/Lebron without anything else to commend them. The pool of big men available today is FAR greater than it was in 1979, and they are FAR more athletic and skilled. It's only that their relative competition and what is required of them has gotten far more difficult - you can't be a low-IQ, slow-footed guy hanging out around the basket all day anymore.

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/expl...-than-larry-bird.449138/page-12#post-20190389

 

[FS4LFE]

This debate ended in June.

 

[DaSk8D00D]

Until recently, lebron never had a team as good as Larrys Celtics. Had lebron played on those teams, I think he woulda put up better numbers than bird

 

[Osmosis]

Lebron is only competing with Jordan and Kareem

 

[Consumed]

I can't see Bird getting shut down by Jason Terry and JJ Barrera. I can't see Bird disappear for 4 straight 4th quarters with a 2.2 ppg average in those quarters with the title on the line

Bird shot 4-17 in a game 7 loss to Detroit in '88 and averaged 19.8 points on 35% shooting in the series

Nobody is perfect, Bird had plenty of shytty performances in the PS that nobody ever talks about, and he is not better than Lebron on that stage.

 

[thenatural]

this topic was already squashed in another thread...Coach Nik is a low key Bron hater and he's trying to be slick in that video and trying to make them seem closer than they are.






http://www.thecoli.com/threads/expl...-than-larry-bird.449138/page-12#post-20190389

My lord @ this statistical ether. Not even a huge LeBron fan, but c'mon now.

 

[loyola llothta]

fuk this thread

 

[David_TheMan]

Lebron is only competing with Jordan and Kareem

Wilt, Bill, Magic are in that convo, far more than Jordan and Kareem IMHO.

 

[TrebleMan]

If you're a GM and both Lebron and Bird are there in a draft when you need a SF, I'd laugh if you pass on Lebron for Larry.

Kobe fan speaking.

 

[hayesc0]

you kats need to do better. This like the 3rd thread on this subject the last 12 months.

One kat on here already destroyed this myth even broke down how bird got shut down in a few finals and playoffs games scoring 8-10 points the whole game.

Coach Nick is a clown also and picks and chooses stats. The dude is like Fox News of basket and only comes up with these got topic videos to get viewership.

Yep all legends have had failures even mj people seem to forget this somehow.
Breakdown from real gm

1980- Averaged a .511 TS% in the postseason. In game 5 vs. the Sixers, he shot poorly, 5-19 with just 12 points, as the Celtics lost the game. His man (Dr. J) averaged 25 PPG in this series. His team loses in 5 games despite having HCA and winning 61 games. Had a 18.3 PER in the postseason

1981- Has a .532 TS% in the postseason. He had a bad finals where he averaged just 15 PPG on .419 shooting and .460 TS%.

1982- PPG average dropped from 22.9 PPG to 17.8 PPG. He has an embarrassing .474 TS% in the playoffs. He averaged a pedestrian 18.3 PPG against the Sixers. Averages 17 PPG in the final 2 games of the series. The Celtics lose again with HCA. The Celtics won 63 games and had the #1 SRS in the league. Has a 17.9 PER in the postseason.

1983- The Celtics get swept by the Bucks. The Celtics win 56 games and had the #2 SRS in the league and lose again with HCA. Bird plays awful again. .478 TS%. His PPG average drops 2 PPG in the playoffs. Bird missed a game in the series but that game happened to be the closest one (Celtics lose by 4). In the 3 other games, the Celtics lose by 14.3 PPG with Bird on the court.

1984- Great playoffs. Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and had a .607 TS% in the playoffs. First great playoff of his career. Celtics win the title over the Lakers.

1985- Celtics make the finals, but Bird's numbers drop in the playoffs. His PPG drops by 2.8 PPG, Reb by 1.2 Reb, and AST by 0.7 AST. Had an average .536 TS% in the postseason. Bird plays even worse in the finals. His PPG dropped 4.9 PPG, his Reb 1.7 Reb, and AST by 1.6 AST in the finals compared to his regular season average. His Finals TS% is just .527. Not only that, but Celtics finish with 63 wins and lose once again with HCA a constant theme in Bird's career. This is the first time in Celtics history they lost in the finals with HCA.

1986- Great year. His best year ever. Wins the title. .615 TS% in the postseason and amazing finals.

1987- I think this is his most admirable playoffs up until the finals. The Celtics were quite banged up this year. Averaged 27-10-7 in the postseason with .577 TS%. Though his numbers in the finals dropped off once again. His PPG was 3.9 PPG down from the regular season, AST down by 2.1 AST and his TS% was just .534. In game 6, Bird scored just 16 points on 6-16 (.375) shooting. In the final 3 games of this series, Bird averaged just 20 PPG on .377 shooting and .492 TS% with 3.7 TOV. This is the first time Bird has played without HCA in the playoffs and his team loses.

1988- Bird's PPG drops by 5.4 PPG, Reb by 0.5 Reb. Bird shoots an awful 40-114 (.351) against the Pistons. Has a mediocre .538 TS% and 20.2 PER in the playoffs. The Celtics had HCA and the #1 SRS in the league and you probably guessed what happened next, Larry Bird loses with HCA once again.

1989- Injured doesn't play in the postseason.

1990- Bird shoots .539 TS% and has 3.6 TOV as the Celtics once again you guessed it, lose with HCA.

1991- In the first round, his team needs to go 5 vs. the 41 win Pacers. His PPG drop by 2.3 PPG and his Rebounds and Assists also drop quite a bit. Has a .490 TS% 15.8 PER in the playoffs. Against the Pistons Bird averages 13.4 PPG on .446 TS%. His 56 win team played with you guessed it HCA and loses with it.

1992- Doesn't play in the first round as the Celtics sweep the Pacers. In round 2, his team goes 7 against the Cavs, but Bird plays in 4 games and his team was 1-3 in those games. Averages a pathetic 11.3 PPG and 4.5 Reb which are 8.4 PPG and 5.2 Reb down from his regular season average. He has a .514 TS% and 16.4 PER in the postseason.

 

[SadimirPutin]

funny thing is how people will see facts and numbers put in front them and when that cold reality hits them they resort to bullshyt like the "eye test" or "clutch factor"........

but again why should we be surprised.......the people arguing against lebron are the same people who got angry because people were bumping threads where they talked mindless bullshyt....

imagine catching feelings at having to read the shyt you said....how sway

 

[Rigby.]

Coach NicKKK