BBALLBREAKDOWN: Was Larry Bird Better Than LeBron James?
- Thread starter SunZoo
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WTF, DID U REALLY HACK ME? I CANT TELL, BUT IF U DID, TELL ME NOW SO I CAN CHANGE MY PASSWORD.
Bernie Madoff
Banned
that 86 celtics team would have a chance at going undefeated in today's nba...
Goatpoacher
Superstar
Please make it lower case so I don't have to see your posts any more
Cryptocurrency Scarface
Coinbased
looking at this makes it tough
Bron advantage health,Speed and Defense
Bird advantage shooting, Free throws
Both got the passing rebounding and BBIQ
Tough one I just can't see bird chasing Rose then PG13 then Durant around at no points in a game
And I can't see Bron going to the 3 point challenge in the locker room asking who coming in 2nd
If your argument rests on something that happened during All-Star Weekend...
Lebron is far better at defense, driving/speed, and ballhandling. Those are skills that make an impact on EVERY possession of the game.
Bird and Lebron were both all-time greats at passing and basketball IQ. Probably the best two ever among the stars at their position.
Bird was better at 3pt-shooting and free throw shooting...in an era where he only made 0.7 threes and 4.4 free throws a game.
Bird's superior three-point and free-throw shooting affected a few possessions a game...if he had shot Lebron's slightly worse numbers, it would only have cost his team 0.7 points a game.
You can be sure Lebron's ability to break down the defense with his superior ball-handling was worth a lot more than 0.7 ppg...and his superior defense even more so.
On top of that, Lebron has far, far more iconic playoff moments - Game 5 vs. Detroit in 2006, Game 4 vs. Indiana in 2012, Game 6 vs. Boston in 2012, Games 6/7 vs. San Antonio in 2013, Games 5/6/7 vs. Golden State in 2016....not to mention the huge 2009 Orlando series (especially Game 2), 2011 Chicago series (especially games 4-5), 2012 Oklahoma City series, 2015 Atlanta series, and 2016 Golden State series.
How many moments does Larry have in the playoffs that compare game-by-game and series-by-series with what Lebron did? Bird's Celtics beat the Lakers once in a series totally dominated by his front line's offensive boards, a massive free throw advantage, and Magic's critical errors in every close game. Other than that, he has two championships won against crap, outmanned Houston teams and a bunch of times coming up short.
And no one can say that Lebron has too many playoff "failures" without acknowledging that Bird's '82, '83, '87, and '88 exits easily look worse than Lebron's worse four eliminations.....not to mention an extremely underwhelming 1981 Finals win.
Yeah, base your entire argument for comparing careers on a single stat from 1/4th of a single playoff series from just one of the two players when he was 25 years old.
Bird scored 8, 8, and 12 points in three CONSECUTIVE Finals games.
Bird shot poorly (4-17, 7-18, 6-16, 6-18) in an elimination game in the playoffs FOUR times, including losing three of those.
Bird averaged 20ppg or less while losing in a playoff series THREE times, and only managed 15ppg in a Finals once.
The only reason he has this silly reputation that he "wouldn't let that happen to him" is because of magic era dust. He didn't show anything in his career, ever, that proved he was invulnerable to crap scoring games in the biggest moments, or even entire crap series.
I've already been quoted a few times in this thread, but lets put this down one last time so it's easy to see. Lebron obviously dominates statistically, especially when you notice that Bird played in an era with the advantage of 20+ more possessions every game. Lebron obviously dominates on defense, even though most of that isn't measured statistically. And when you look at their playoff prowess in the biggest moments....Bird's resume just isn't want you want it to be:
KingJudah2
All Star
Larry Bird wasn't soft not even close. But LBJ better than him period despite being soft
ajnapoleon
Veteran
If your argument rests on something that happened during All-Star Weekend...
Lebron is far better at defense, driving/speed, and ballhandling. Those are skills that make an impact on EVERY possession of the game.
Bird and Lebron were both all-time greats at passing and basketball IQ. Probably the best two ever among the stars at their position.
Bird was better at 3pt-shooting and free throw shooting...in an era where he only made 0.7 threes and 4.4 free throws a game.
Bird's superior three-point and free-throw shooting affected a few possessions a game...if he had shot Lebron's slightly worse numbers, it would only have cost his team 0.7 points a game.
You can be sure Lebron's ability to break down the defense with his superior ball-handling was worth a lot more than 0.7 ppg...and his superior defense even more so.
On top of that, Lebron has far, far more iconic playoff moments - Game 5 vs. Detroit in 2006, Game 4 vs. Indiana in 2012, Game 6 vs. Boston in 2012, Games 6/7 vs. San Antonio in 2013, Games 5/6/7 vs. Golden State in 2016....not to mention the huge 2009 Orlando series (especially Game 2), 2011 Chicago series (especially games 4-5), 2012 Oklahoma City series, 2015 Atlanta series, and 2016 Golden State series.
How many moments does Larry have in the playoffs that compare game-by-game and series-by-series with what Lebron did? Bird's Celtics beat the Lakers once in a series totally dominated by his front line's offensive boards, a massive free throw advantage, and Magic's critical errors in every close game. Other than that, he has two championships won against crap, outmanned Houston teams and a bunch of times coming up short.
And no one can say that Lebron has too many playoff "failures" without acknowledging that Bird's '82, '83, '87, and '88 exits easily look worse than Lebron's worse four eliminations.....not to mention an extremely underwhelming 1981 Finals win.
Yeah, base your entire argument for comparing careers on a single stat from 1/4th of a single playoff series from just one of the two players when he was 25 years old.
Bird scored 8, 8, and 12 points in three CONSECUTIVE Finals games.
Bird shot poorly (4-17, 7-18, 6-16, 6-18) in an elimination game in the playoffs FOUR times, including losing three of those.
Bird averaged 20ppg or less while losing in a playoff series THREE times, and only managed 15ppg in a Finals once.
The only reason he has this silly reputation that he "wouldn't let that happen to him" is because of magic era dust. He didn't show anything in his career, ever, that proved he was invulnerable to crap scoring games in the biggest moments, or even entire crap series.
I've already been quoted a few times in this thread, but lets put this down one last time so it's easy to see. Lebron obviously dominates statistically, especially when you notice that Bird played in an era with the advantage of 20+ more possessions every game. Lebron obviously dominates on defense, even though most of that isn't measured statistically. And when you look at their playoff prowess in the biggest moments....Bird's resume just isn't want you want it to be:
Great points If even lebron avg 20 points a series and won he would have been carried and if she one on his team avg more he would get flamed .....but it don't seem to be like that for any other player in history
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
I’m here for the scraps
That fool is ducking the fade and derailing threads in the coliseum now while giving fake vin numbers for cars he doesn't own? Pitiful.
I know you probably love the magic era dust so much you're snorting it through the nose, but exactly what do you believe happened which would allow a bunch of guys who played high school ball in the 1970s, one of the worst eras in American professional basketball history where only a tiny portion of the American population was even interested in the game, to somehow produce a far better set of players than guys who played high school ball in the 2000s, where basketball was not only far more popular (one of the two biggest sports in America and now with obvious health and security advantages in comparison to football), but was recruiting talent from hundreds of millions of additional potential ballers worldwide?
It's like you saw some sweet all-star team in Oregon, and shouted, "Look at how tough and fundamental these guys are! Look how they destroy those other Oregon teams! I just know they would kick ass against anyone from New York!"
You really think Dennis Johnson is going to look good against ANY of the elite point guards today? Watch videos of his handles and defense again. Not to mention that he had NO three-point shot at all.
Outside of Bird, they're going to war with Danny Ainge as their only three-point shooter. Any team today with Ainge as their best-shooting guard....and no one else on the perimeter....is going to be in struggle territory.
You think Larry Bird is staying in front of Lebron, Durant, PG13, or any other elite wing player today? Heck, in the 1980s he admitted that he didn't even guard guys on the three-point line, and he STILL got regularly schooled by the James Worthys and Adrian Dantleys of his day.
Then you have McHale and Parish having to take guys on switches and defend stretch players out to the perimeter? Heck, the Celtics' biggest strength was getting offensive boards and favorable calls from the officials, and I doubt they could hand with today's offensive rebounders alone, let alone the guys with incredibly more developed skill sets.
The Celtics were incredibly loaded for the 1980s, which is why Bird only winning 3 titles playing against 1-man or 2-man teams (outside of the Lakers) doesn't look very impressive. But they're still a 1980s team, which means they're still not anything compared to the talent of today.
I think Bird would be like Dirk on roids in this league. Better defender, passer and as good if not better from outside.
Not to mention he'd probably be in better shape/conditioning.
He'd probably have a better hair do too
storyteller
Veteran
I think Bird would be like Dirk on roids in this league. Better defender, passer and as good if not better from outside.
Not to mention he'd probably be in better shape/conditioning.
He'd probably have a better hair do too
Damn that's a really good comparison that I didn't think about. Dude is definitely a better defender and passer than Dirk imo and I'd think his jumper would force players to treat him like Korver even off the ball. The better conditioning focus is something I didn't even consider either, he'd be in better shape for sure so in spite of facing better athletes he'd probably still get some off.
Before going overboard on the Bird/Dirk comparisons, don't forget that Bird is 3 inches shorter than Dirk, 25 lbs lighter, played a different position, and had a career only half as long. Dirk shot better than Bird from three over his career despite having much higher volume and facing much more active defense on the perimeter. And one of the biggest reasons that Dirk was such trouble was the combination of his 7' height with his high release. Don't forget that Dirk gets a lot of rep due to his long career - he's played for 17 seasons now and didn't win his title until his 12th season - while Bird didn't come close to that kind of longevity.
Bird could not just become "a better Dirk" in this age. I agree he'd play the same position because he'd be forced to move from the 3 to the 4 due to his lack of speed and inability to defend swingmen, and I agree he'd be a better passer and defender. But at the 4 he'd lack the height advantage that Dirk had and he'd probably be reduced to an average rebounder at the 4 in today's NBA rather than a great one at the 3. He still deserves a higher place in NBA history than Dirk does, but Dirk is a marginal top-20 player, so saying, "better than Dirk in some ways but with a shorter career" merely makes him a marginal top-10 player at best, which is what he probably deserves.
Bird could not just become "a better Dirk" in this age. I agree he'd play the same position because he'd be forced to move from the 3 to the 4 due to his lack of speed and inability to defend swingmen, and I agree he'd be a better passer and defender. But at the 4 he'd lack the height advantage that Dirk had and he'd probably be reduced to an average rebounder at the 4 in today's NBA rather than a great one at the 3. He still deserves a higher place in NBA history than Dirk does, but Dirk is a marginal top-20 player, so saying, "better than Dirk in some ways but with a shorter career" merely makes him a marginal top-10 player at best, which is what he probably deserves.
Exactly bruh...when u show me Larry Bird chase down a 20 something year old 1, 2, or 3 position player on a fast break from beyond half court and pin they shyt to the glass (not to mention 1 being in a crucial game 7 moment) then we can talk. Til then, cut the shyt
IllmaticDelta
Veteran
Exactly bruh...when u show me Larry Bird chase down a 20 something year old 1, 2, or 3 position player on a fast break from beyond half court and pin they shyt to the glass (not to mention 1 being in a crucial game 7 moment) then we can talk. Til then, cut the shyt
