Bernie Sanders Speech on Democratic Socialism & Economic Rights (6/12/19)

[storyteller]

I can see the argument that using the term pushes the discussion to the left, which could result in more progressive policies in the long term. I just have a hard time ignoring what happened in 2016, and what has happened several times since the invent of mass politics...which is the left divides itself on the idea of socialism and the right stays in power. Theres a reason the NSDAP was able to take over Germany with only a third of the vote...

Ultimately, if you’re not socialist and your policies aren’t socialist then I don’t think you should brand yourself a socialist to win the votes of confused or ignorant people. It’s not semantics or some high brow argument over definitions.

I see much bigger problems with how Yang is marketing himself than Bernie. Bernie's policies are a clear logical (and necessary) step in the direction of socialism. Yang is out here marketing himself as progressive and pushing Libertarian principles with his actual rhetoric. I also don't think Bernie branded himself Socialist to win votes, he's branded himself a Socialist for half a century and was not particularly successful in doing so. It's typically been used against him and continues to be. If he could shake the label, I think it'd be better for his campaign (ie: Warren pushing policies with a similar leaning but being embraced by people who LOATHE Bernie such as Nap). So just to simplify I see two main points of disagreement here

1. I really don't think Bernie is labeling himself Socialist to win votes, I'm not sure there's even a precedent for that strategy in this country. The opposite is typically the norm.
2. I also don't think Bernie COULD redefine himself after the amount of time he's spent with that label.

And then there's just one additional thought which that I think this is strategically the best path to getting people open to accepting more conventional definitions and ideas. Like Bernie's bill to expand opportunites for Workers to form coops; I think that's an absolute perfect example of not being on the nose Democratic Socialism, but a very clear step in that direction with a beneficial impact presently as well.

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

If he could shake the label, I think it'd be better for his campaign

nah. changing your tune because it's campaign season is some joe biden shyt. part of bernie's appeal is that people can see he's really the guy he presents himself as and always has been. they like the reality of him.

 

[Mr Rager]

That's my prez

 

[wtfyomom]

fukk the capitalist shills that want bernie to pander, nah we need socialism period. thats why im weary on warren, stop playing games cause youre god forbid scared to criticize capitalism which is trash and caused this whole mess. what is she even talking about with saying she believes in markets. markets are not exclusive to capitalism for one and the mythology that the free market fixes everything is bullshyt anyway.

 

[wtfyomom]

nah. changing your tune because it's campaign season is some joe biden shyt. part of bernie's appeal is that people can see he's really the guy he presents himself as and always has been. they like the reality of him.

exactly, fukk this kow towing

 

[Pressure]

fukk the capitalist shills that want bernie to pander, nah we need socialism period. thats why im weary on warren, stop playing games cause youre god forbid scared to criticize capitalism which is trash and caused this whole mess. what is she even talking about with saying she believes in markets. markets are not exclusive to capitalism for one and the mythology that the free market fixes everything is bullshyt anyway.

You're not getting socialism

 

[Xcoyote]

You're not getting socialism

Why are you so happy about it though?

 

[wtfyomom]

Why are you so happy about it though?

cause hes not on the left

 

[Pressure]

Why are you so happy about it though?

Because I don't think Socialism is the solution. I'm also not struggling under the current system.

But I think you guys are so far removed from the reality of this country that it's laughable. Further I think you all underestimate what it would require to fundamentally change the structure of the US government and none of you are willing to go to war for it.

None of the candidates are even pushing for socialism.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Because I don't think Socialism is the solution. I'm also not struggling under the current system.

But I think you guys are so far removed from the reality of this country that it's laughable. Further I think you all underestimate what it would require to fundamentally change the structure of the US government and none of you are willing to go to war for it.

None of the candidates are even pushing for socialism.

If it is good for him it is good for everybody. This guy can't see past his own interests and speak about society at large.

 

[storyteller]

This country needs to shift the overton window a good amount before anything like strict Socialism even has a snowball's chance in hell imo. We're fighting to get Social Democratic policies into mainstream discussions without being dismissed as the beginning of a dystopian sci-fi novel right now.

 

[Shogun]

fukk the capitalist shills that want bernie to pander, nah we need socialism period. thats why im weary on warren, stop playing games cause youre god forbid scared to criticize capitalism which is trash and caused this whole mess. what is she even talking about with saying she believes in markets. markets are not exclusive to capitalism for one and the mythology that the free market fixes everything is bullshyt anyway.

What’s your definition of socialism?

 

[Pressure]

This country needs to shift the overton window a good amount before anything like strict Socialism even has a snowball's chance in hell imo. We're fighting to get Social Democratic policies into mainstream discussions without being dismissed as the beginning of a dystopian sci-fi novel right now.

I dont see that happening without major catastrophes.

There's a reason UHC proposals are now being dubbed as Medicare for all and not something entirely new.

There's a reason why the term green new deal is being used.

 

[storyteller]

I dont see that happening without major catastrophes.

There's a reason UHC proposals are now being dubbed as Medicare for all and not something entirely new.

There's a reason why the term green new deal is being used.

Ironically, Sam Seder was just reporting earlier on his show that the leadership of the Dems are trying their damndest not to inform the public on what Medicare for All is and would like to pivot to speaking on more UHC proposals based on this article.

Ways and Means Committee Chair Doesn’t Want Medicare for All Hearing to Mention “Medicare for All”

Can't really argue what the people will or won't accept when our own leadership refuses to put the effort in to inform. Sanders and now Warren's success however, suggests to me that just showing the actual policies to the public can get the ball rolling. I'm speculating of course.

 

[Pressure]

Ironically, Sam Seder was just reporting earlier on his show that the leadership of the Dems are trying their damndest not to inform the public on what Medicare for All is and would like to pivot to speaking on more UHC proposals based on this article.

Ways and Means Committee Chair Doesn’t Want Medicare for All Hearing to Mention “Medicare for All”

Can't really argue what the people will or won't accept when our own leadership refuses to put the effort in to inform. Sanders and now Warren's success however, suggests to me that just showing the actual policies to the public can get the ball rolling. I'm speculating of course.

He ran on expanding Obamacare against a progressive challenger.