Better Long-Term Heel Champ: CM Punk or JBL?

[TrueEpic08]

Punk got Ryback over by himself? He could barely get his own heel turn over.

And your talent argument holds no weight because for a ten year stretch from 1997 to 2007 the E had a shyt ton of talent and characters. And I don't need to tell you the number of monster heel pushes that failed in that decade. By your logic everyone should have gotten over and been great heels. The talent was there....right?






That's because it was boring and forgettable.

Then explain Ryback going from getting golf claps to huge pops whenever he either interacted with or talked about CM Punk, then getting not much at all whenever he broke away from him.

If you actually watch the shows, you see that Ryback doesn't really get loud pops at ALL unless he's interacting with CM Punk. He comes out? Golf claps. He's in the ring? Goldberg chants and golf claps. The only thing that's really hanging on for him is the "Feed Me More" thing, and that's only the fourth most over chant in the company right now, if that.

 

[Tres Leches]

Daniel Bryan.

Dude was in the midst of a losing streak, totally unover and had no personality whatsoever as a face. Then BOOM he wins MITB and keeps losing then he gets in the title picture and beats Big Show.

You all get on JBL saying he was a midcarder with no main event credibility but Bryan had none either. At least prior to his main event push he was over, part of a popular tag team, won matches, and a multi time tag champion. Even during that horrible 2002 main event push where he was SCSA's buddy against the NWO he was waaaaaay more over than Bryan leading up to his title win.

But either way you got two legit, credible main eventers and world champions out of the deal, including one who's a breakout star ready to take the reigns at anytime. So yeah, those pushes out of nowhere are good and not just for people you stan.

daniel bryan won MITB and then lost a lot of matches after that...he cashes in on big show but big show was completely out of it so it makes sense after this bryan became a heel and loses to sheamus in seconds @ WM...you cant compare that to JBL who gets a #1 contender spot for no reason wins and then has the longest smackdown reign ever...lets not even mention his garbage cabinet.

 

[StatUS]

daniel bryan won MITB and then lost a lot of matches after that...he cashes in on big show but big show was completely out of it so it makes sense after this bryan became a heel and loses to sheamus in seconds @ WM...you cant compare that to JBL who gets a #1 contender spot for no reason wins and then has the longest smackdown reign ever...lets not even mention his garbage cabinet.

Such Awful Television

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

Never said JBL had no talent he's just not as good as Punk. Punk's had better feuds with Taker and Cena as a heel. Put him in with Angle and Eddie and it woulda been the same. JBL a one trick pony with Punk changing his heel persona every time he turns. Dude came back to crickets on Raw, no one remembers him like that except the IWC you are rallying against here. He has no standing in history except for people who like to bring up that one In His Own Words promo.

All you can do is speculate on that though. You don't know how different it would be. We can only discuss what actually happened and is happening.

As for Punk's character change He only has two characters; cult leader and smart ass. Cena has undergone three different character changes, possibly four, as a face. No turns needed.

Then explain Ryback going from getting golf claps to huge pops whenever he either interacted with or talked about CM Punk, then getting not much at all whenever he broke away from him.

If you actually watch the shows, you see that Ryback doesn't really get loud pops at ALL unless he's interacting with CM Punk. He comes out? Golf claps. He's in the ring? Goldberg chants and golf claps. The only thing that's really hanging on for him is the "Feed Me More" thing, and that's only the fourth most over chant in the company right now, if that.

If someone is truly over their heat would show some consistency. You are right about Ryback, he isn't consistently over but that has nothing to do with Punk. Ryback was getting mixed reactions long before he encountered Punk and the Feed Me More thing has been over since he was squashing jobbers. And the fact that he is able to turn Goldberg chants to his own shows that he has gotten himself over to some degree.

I have to laugh at you ranking the overness of chants.

 

[TrueEpic08]

All you can do is speculate on that though. You don't know how different it would be. We can only discuss what actually happened and is happening.

As for Punk's character change He only has two characters; cult leader and smart ass. Cena has undergone three different character changes, possibly four, as a face. No turns needed.






If someone is truly over their heat would show some consistency. You are right about Ryback, he isn't consistently over but that has nothing to do with Punk. Ryback was getting mixed reactions long before he encountered Punk and the Feed Me More thing has been over since he was squashing jobbers. And the fact that he is able to turn Goldberg chants to his own shows that he has gotten himself over to some degree.

I have to laugh at you ranking the overness of chants.

at the Goldberg thing. You don't really believe that, do you? He's done nothing similar to how, say, Cena attempts to reclaim "Cena sucks" chants.

The Bolded: Here are the rankings:
1). "Yes!"/"No!"
2). "Let's go Cena!"/"Cena Sucks!"
3). "Cody's Mustache!"
4). "What?"
5). "Feed Me More!"

Rearrange 1-4 as you see fit.

 

[StatUS]

All you can do is speculate on that though. You don't know how different it would be. We can only discuss what actually happened and is happening.

As for Punk's character change He only has two characters; cult leader and smart ass. Cena has undergone three different character changes, possibly four, as a face. No turns needed.

It's not speculation. JBL only really has one good feud and that was with Eddie and a good I quit match with Cena but the actual feud was

His feud with Jericho was WOAT level and the HBK feud was good like the Cena/Kane feud was good.

Punk's had classic feuds with Mysterio, Jeff Hardy, John Cena, and a classic Royal Rumble appearance. All as a heel while being the "I'm better than you guy" to the "Cult leader" to the "Delusional and Best In The World."

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

daniel bryan won MITB and then lost a lot of matches after that...he cashes in on big show but big show was completely out of it so it makes sense after this bryan became a heel and loses to sheamus in seconds @ WM...you cant compare that to JBL who gets a #1 contender spot for no reason wins and then has the longest smackdown reign ever...lets not even mention his garbage cabinet.

Ah ah ah....let's not move goal posts. The point is about both pushes coming out of nowhere. And make no mistake, the MITB briefcase is a push. At that time it pretty much guaranteed you a title. Coming into that match Bryan had NO momentum and not much afterwards. He didn't really pick up momentum until after he won the title and got comfortable in his heel role.

JBL on the other hand was over and one half of a popular tag team. Bryan had an internet cult following and one forgettable US title reign behind him. The point is that neither had main event credibility going into their pushes, JBL just had a bit more momentum. The only reason one is "right" is because you all were salivating at thought of Bryan in the main event no matter what. Most smarks already hated JBL, now there was going to be more?

The point is there's no difference, the WWE took two potential midcarders for life and turned them into main eventers. It happened. The end.

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

at the Goldberg thing. You don't really believe that, do you? He's done nothing similar to how, say, Cena attempts to reclaim "Cena sucks" chants.

The Bolded: Here are the rankings:
1). "Yes!"/"No!"
2). "Let's go Cena!"/"Cena Sucks!"
3). "Cody's Mustache!"
4). "What?"
5). "Feed Me More!"

Rearrange 1-4 as you see fit.

Cody's mustache? : snoop:

What chants? If they count you may as well toss BORING, YOU TAPPED OUT, and THIS IS AWESOME in there as well. Oh yeah, Rocky.

You're grasping breh.

It's not speculation. JBL only really has one good feud and that was with Eddie and a good I quit match with Cena but the actual feud was

His feud with Jericho was WOAT level and the HBK feud was good like the Cena/Kane feud was good.

Punk's had classic feuds with Mysterio, Jeff Hardy, John Cena, and a classic Royal Rumble appearance. All as a heel while being the "I'm better than you guy" to the "Cult leader" to the "Delusional and Best In The World."

These are all opinions while they may be valid are irrelevant. The question is who can play a better heel? A suck ass heel like Miz could have had a good feud with Bryan when he was hot post NXT. But we can all agree Miz sucks right? Okay then.

Your second paragraph is a bit flawed. One, I disagree with your characterizations. But even if true he didn't do that over one heel run. I have no idea where the I'm better than you heel run comes in because I don't remember him having a heel run before SES. If you mean after SES the I'm better than you/best in the world shtick is pretty much the same. I mean if you're the best in the world..... Aren't you better than me?


*knocks out JR*

AREN'T YOU BETTER THAN MEEEEEEEE !!?

 

[TrueEpic08]

Cody's mustache? : snoop:

What chants? If they count you may as well toss BORING, YOU TAPPED OUT, and THIS IS AWESOME in there as well. Oh yeah, Rocky.

You're grasping breh.

That's why I limited it to 4 at first.

Besides, I thought I was making a harmless joke here.

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

Joke? Maybe you were, maybe you weren't.

But I've already filed away these overness stats for later understanding. In the meantime see you in the RAW thread bro.

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

Why bother arguing with liggins? We already know he doesn't like reality, that's why he makes up his own.

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

Why bother arguing with liggins? We already know he doesn't like reality, that's why he makes up his own.

Guess I'm not so different after all.

 

[StatUS]

These are all opinions while they may be valid are irrelevant. The question is who can play a better heel? A suck ass heel like Miz could have had a good feud with Bryan when he was hot post NXT. But we can all agree Miz sucks right? Okay then.

Your second paragraph is a bit flawed. One, I disagree with your characterizations. But even if true he didn't do that over one heel run. I have no idea where the I'm better than you heel run comes in because I don't remember him having a heel run before SES. If you mean after SES the I'm better than you/best in the world shtick is pretty much the same. I mean if you're the best in the world..... Aren't you better than me?


*knocks out JR*

AREN'T YOU BETTER THAN MEEEEEEEE !!?

So Punk is a better heel than JBL is an opinion but JBL is a better heel than Punk is fact

And Punk during the feud with Hardy was basically a revamp of his ROH heel I'm better than you because I'm Straight Edge character. The SES Jim Jones thing didn't come till months later. Now he's a guy who claims to be the best wrestler in the world but instead of being a fighting face he's a sneaky heel who has questionable claims to that title now.

And I don't think Miz sucks I just think he's the worse main eventer and heel champ since.............




























Wait for it











































JBL

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

So Punk is a better heel than JBL is an opinion but JBL is a better heel than Punk is fact

I didn't say that. I was referring to your statement on feuds.

And Punk during the feud with Hardy was basically a revamp of his ROH heel I'm better than you because I'm Straight Edge character. The SES Jim Jones thing didn't come till months later. Now he's a guy who claims to be the best wrestler in the world but instead of being a fighting face he's a sneaky heel who has questionable claims to that title now.

That whole SES thing runs together to me. Gallows showed up not too long after Punk turned. And I wouldn't call being a coward a character change. A tweak maybe. Same thing most heels go through, just a small aspect of the overall character which in Punk's case is a smartass braggart. Something he was as a face as well.

And I don't think Miz sucks I just think he's the worse main eventer and heel champ since.............




























Wait for it











































JBL


Nope. /Ambrose

The Great Khali

 

[Smokebreak]

JBL's run was the most boring champion of all time...his promos were predictable and typical bs.


theres one thing if you have no one on your level, but JBL was pure garbage getting great opponents.


No one cares about a hick repping new york city


Has anyone explained how he got that main event push?