Better PG/PF combo: JKidd & KMart or CP3 & Blake

Who you got?

  • Blake/CP3

    Votes: 58 53.7%
  • JKidd/K-Mart

    Votes: 50 46.3%

  • Total voters
    108

Gil Scott-Heroin

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He played with shytty players
:manny:
Their offense was shytty because of Kidd, not because they had shytty players. And if I'm not mistaken, isn't one of the biggest talking points surrounding Kidd, that he makes players better? Why didn't he turn those "shytty" players into players that weren't shytty? And his "shytty" teammates still doesn't explain his less than stellar individual scoring #s?

:mjpls:

That teams offense was its defense those 2 final year runs. Not one player on that team could create their own shot. All they had was to rebound and push the ball and play D.
They actually weren't that bad, the problem was, Kidd would control the ball too much in halfcourt sets (not in halfbreak situations) and teams would hardly ever double him knowing his 9/10 pass tendency - shrinking the space his teammates had to play with - compounding already somewhat-average offensive players into looking worse than they actually were (which really throws cold water on the fact 'he made his teammates better').
Not having a real scorer killed them esp against SA that second year. His rebounding was to push the ball..he didnt rebound to initiate and dribble dribble ala cp3(and i love chris paul) ..he knew the team stregths...now tell me who he is setting up with these 2 rosters..its amazing they got as far as they did..but it was their defense that did it for them.
There's no doubting he did know his team's strengths, his BBIQ has always been off the charts, but he didn't exactly always play to them because of his limited scoring/shooting ability. The defense really covered up a lot of his flaws, I mean the offense was going through its nine lives during that 2001-2007 period (not to mention the pace nearly grinding to a halt) and the defense continued to stand the test of time. Other than the Spurs, I don't think a franchise had a more formidable defense than NJ for the better half of the 2000s.

It was a perfect all-around scenario for Kidd. If he stayed in Phoenix, he would've been washed out to sea every single season in the playoffs. There'd be no romanticizing of this 'great floor general', that makes teammates better, because he would've remained the poster boy for first round exits.
 

Gil Scott-Heroin

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They had an identity as a defensive minded team, not an offensive juggernaut, and really had a style of play that suited the personnel for that
It's rare to have a team be upper echelon on both sides of the ball
But isn't Kidd this great floor general and PG? All I see is you giving excuses to a player whose reputation exceeds a role player's justification. If he makes teammates better, and plays to their strengths, why were they so poor offensively?
I can't honestly blame Kidd for the team identity
What about the offensive ranks of the other teams he played for?
The Mavs, Suns, etc...?
But one can blame him for them having an inefficient offense.

94/95 - playing next to McCloud and Jackson - ended up with the 15th ranked offense
95/96 - relatively the same personnel - finished with the 19th ranked offense.
96/97 DAL - he only played 22 games - finished with the 28th ranked offense
96/97 PHO - he only played 33 games (started only 22), KJ was the one leading the team that season and they had the 6th ranked offense.
97/98 - Kidd took over starting duties, with relatively the same personnel and they ended with the 12th ranked offense (Nash had superior on-court points production than Kidd - propping up the points per 100 possessions - however, keep in mind it was mostly against second units)
98/99 - lockout season, 50 games, few extra changes to the personnel and they end up with the 4th ranked offense - no coincidence it was statistically Kidd's best shooting season.
99/00 - few extra personnel changes, most notably Penny, and they had the 12th ranked offense
00/01 - Penny was injured for pretty much the entire season, and they had the 22nd ranked offense

2001/02 Nets - 17th ranked offfense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2002/03 Nets - 18th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2003/04 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2004/05 Nets - 26th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2005/06 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2006/07 Nets - 16th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2007/08 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)


Across 14-15 seasons when Kidd was the leader of the team, he only orchestrated ONE top-10 offense. I can divide. That's one great offense every 14 season average and that's so....

:scusthov:
 

I.AM.PIFF

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We lost the lakers and the spurs in the finals

They made the finals because they had an easy road to it. If they were in the West, they'd finish 5th/6th at best (I expect less since they'd face better competition). They'd have to beat one of these teams in the first round (all of which were >>>> the Nets). And if they wanted to reach the finals, they'd have to beat 2/3 of them :ld:

shyt, I'd say they weren't better than Blazers/Wolves either :manny:
 

Tunez

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They made the finals because they had an easy road to it. If they were in the West, they'd finish 5th/6th at best (I expect less since they'd face better competition). They'd have to beat one of these teams in the first round (all of which were >>>> the Nets). And if they wanted to reach the finals, they'd have to beat 2/3 of them :ld:

shyt, I'd say they weren't better than Blazers/Wolves either :manny:

:camby:
 

I.AM.PIFF

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Potential and acheivments are two different things...on paper its Paul and Griff all day...but on court Kidd and Kenyon got it done:yeshrug:

But they did it on a weak conference and those Nets teams were the worst teams to make it to the fianls furing the last 15 years, along the 07 Cavs :manny:
 
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