Better PG/PF combo: JKidd & KMart or CP3 & Blake

[Tunez]

In the East during arguably its weakest ever period. If the Nets were in the West, how far would they have gone in the playoffs? Better question yet, would they have made the playoffs in the West, every season during the early 2000s?

Yes

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Yes

Actually there's a few seasons where the Nets wouldn't make the playoffs in the West, simply because their record was worse than the 8th seed in the West. Not to mention all the other seasons they had a shytty record against Western conference teams - if they actually played in the West, their records would be worse than they're currently stated, because they would've played against better competition throughout the season - leaving them for when they did make the playoffs, matched up against the Spurs, Suns, Lakers and Mavs in the first round. Suffice to say that they probably would've never moved past the first round in every single season Kidd played in NJ (2001-2007).

Kidd and the Nets would basically be a footnote during that period.

 

[Tunez]

Actually there's a few seasons where the Nets wouldn't make the playoffs in the West, simply because their record was worse than the 8th seed in the West. Not to mention all the other seasons they had a shytty record against Western conference teams - if they actually played in the West, their records would be worse than they're currently stated, because they would've played against better competition throughout the season - leaving them for when they did make the playoffs, matched up against the Spurs, Suns, Lakers and Mavs in the first round. Suffice to say that they probably would've never moved past the first round in every single season Kidd played in NJ (2001-2007).

Kidd and the Nets would basically be a footnote during that period.

Kidd carried Nets in the east he could do it in the west

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Kidd carried Nets in the east he could do it in the west

Explain to me how that would be possible in the seasons where they didn't even have a record good enough to make the playoffs in the West?

 

[Tunez]

Explain to me how that would be possible in the seasons where they didn't even have a record good enough to make the playoffs in the West?

5th seed in 01
7th seed in 02
7th seed in 03
Out the playoffs in 04
5th or 6th seed in 05
Out the playoffs in 06
Out the playoffs in 07

Thats good enough

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

5th seed in 01
7th seed in 02
7th seed in 03
Out the playoffs in 04
5th or 6th seed in 05
Out the playoffs in 06
Out the playoffs in 07

Thats good enough

That's four playoff appearances in seven seasons, at a mid-to-low seeding - where they would have to face one of the Lakers, Mavs, Spurs or Suns. They weren't beating any of those teams. How many seasons would they progress past the first round?

 

[Tunez]

That's four playoff appearances in seven seasons, at a mid-to-low seeding - where they would have to face one of the Lakers, Mavs, Spurs or Suns. They weren't beating any of those teams. How many seasons would they progress past the first round?

We beating the mavs or the suns

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

We beating the mavs or the suns

What seasons?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Is he an all-time great PG? Yeah but that's mostly because he played in the league for nearly 20 seasons and benefited from playing during a certain period where the backdrop of the position was more traditional. If he began his career over the last few seasons he wouldn't be a top 5 PG in the league today because he wouldn't get away with dominating the ball in the fashion he did while putting up average scoring #s on horrific shooting percentages while orchestrating middle-of-the-pack offenses.

2001/02 Nets - 17th ranked offfense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2002/03 Nets - 18th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2003/04 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2004/05 Nets - 26th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2005/06 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2006/07 Nets - 16th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2007/08 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)

Every season he was in New Jersey dominating the ball, they had average to one of the worst offenses, season in season out - that's not the mark of a GREAT floor general - that's the mark of player whose suffocation on possessions and inability to be a reliable scorer and a threat as one (he averaged 14.4 points per game on 39.4% shooting during his seven-season stay in NJ) limited those Nets teams on what they could do offensively.

The success that team had was all down to their team defense and playing in the Eastern conference, during its weakest period.

And to follow on from that @GoddamnyamanProf, over those seven seasons in NJ, these were the points he produced per 100 possessions:

103 (ranked 40th amongst all point guards)
106 (ranked 28th amongst all point guards)
102 (ranked 32nd amongst all point guards)
107 (ranked 28th amongst all point guards)
110 (ranked 18th amongst all point guards)
111 (ranked 15th amongst all point guards)
101 (ranked 46th amongst all point guards)

So for all this 'floor general' rhetoric that's shrouded in nostalgia, the numbers he was producing were actually your typical run-of-the-mill PG, not this great, all-encompassing, visionary PG that he was made out to be.

@Tunez @NoHateLeftBehind @MJ Truth

Care to explain the bold.

 

[Osmosis]

Westbrook, Curry, CP, Irving, Lillard - there's other names who I would take over Kidd today too.

Lillard

And not Wall?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Lillard

And not Wall?

The hard thing about that is, in comparison to Kidd, Wall wouldn't do much more, because he's a similar type of player. Plus he hasn't proven to take his game to another level in the playoffs. I mean his 2013/2014 playoffs performance was absolutely abysmal. Probably worse than every other postseason trip Kidd had.

 

[Tunez]

@Tunez @NoHateLeftBehind @MJ Truth

Care to explain the bold.

What other player can Kidd trust dominate for the nets besides himself

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

What other player can Kidd trust dominate for the nets besides himself

That's the problem though, Kidd wasn't dominating. 14.4 points per game on 39.4% shooting is dominating to you?

 

[Tunez]

That's the problem though, Kidd wasn't dominating. 14.4 points per game on 39.4% shooting is dominating to you?

Then who was carrying the team?

 

[ManBearPig]

That's the problem though, Kidd wasn't dominating. 14.4 points per game on 39.4% shooting is dominating to you?

Jason Kidd did a lot of things that didn't show up on the stat sheet.


They had Stephon Marbury the year before putting up like 22/8 on 44% shooting and how well they do?