Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
Well the prison industrial economy.
Crack.
As well as rhe communications act.
All purposefully played a part.
in why things are the way they are.
Art Barr
Big Daddy Kane was basically washed at like 25, how did that happen?
- Thread starter Street Knowledge
- Start date
Well the prison industrial economy.
Crack.
As well as rhe communications act.
All purposefully played a part.
in why things are the way they are.
Art Barr
Mike the Executioner
What went on up there? Poppers and weird sex!
I don't know what to say. Thank you so much for this.
To answer your question, I want to say that it did, but I don't think West Coast rap hurt Kane specifically. The East Coast in general was affected by it. Almost overnight, The Chronic and Doggystyle became these monster albums and a lot of rappers had to adjust to what was going on. Up until The Chronic, the most popular hip hop was.....gimmicky, you could say. MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Arrested Development. The biggest acts were making more pop-oriented hip hop. Public Enemy was the exception to that, but I feel like their aggression spoke to white people who loved hard rock and heavy metal. That Anthrax collaboration didn't just happen for no reason.
The Chronic wasn't that. It wasn't pop, it wasn't rock, it was the same kind of hip hop EPMD and X Clan was making, just smoother. Jimmy Iovine felt like he could market Dre and Snoop to white people and it worked. I don't think they were trying to cross over. They just made really good rap music and it blew up. And it had a gangsta edge to it, so now, the entire industry had to keep pace with them.
Kane really didn't have a chance with all these changes, so even if he was selling and putting out dope albums at that time, he would have been forced to change his image. We would have gotten gangsta Kane rapping fast about killing someone during a drug deal.
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
In this discussion.
That variable and change of the acceptance of pip rap acts. Acts as an immediate exposal.
For posters living an eight mile lie.
Then trying to front.
like they know.
or are apart of hiphop.
Which is why people not culturally versed. Have not replied as much over time here. As they are trying to fool everyone.
When the more indepth they reply. Their lack of content and wherewithal culturally will expose them.
Art Barr
Absolutely.
Influx of styles played a role but the entire game got turned over and reset under our noses.
A lot of people on here are clearly only familiar with two or three of Kane's well known songs, and that's it. It's obvious based on how you characterize his skills and music.
Please go listen to It's a Big Daddy Thing. That album was actually ahead of its time.
Please go listen to It's a Big Daddy Thing. That album was actually ahead of its time.
Toe Jay Simpson
Searchin’
Kane would have and should have survived the great shift that NY went through in the early 90s but he spent his best years chasing mainstream success. He kept trying to cross over to a non Hip Hop audience and was doing it at the absolute worst time. His 3rd album should have been his best and he was artistically headed in that direction but once Madonna gave him the draws he lost his touch
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
I don't know what to say. Thank you so much for this.
To answer your question, I want to say that it did, but I don't think West Coast rap hurt Kane specifically. The East Coast in general was affected by it. Almost overnight, The Chronic and Doggystyle became these monster albums and a lot of rappers had to adjust to what was going on. Up until The Chronic, the most popular hip hop was.....gimmicky, you could say. MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Arrested Development. The biggest acts were making more pop-oriented hip hop. Public Enemy was the exception to that, but I feel like their aggression spoke to white people who loved hard rock and heavy metal. That Anthrax collaboration didn't just happen for no reason.
The Chronic wasn't that. It wasn't pop, it wasn't rock, it was the same kind of hip hop EPMD and X Clan was making, just smoother. Jimmy Iovine felt like he could market Dre and Snoop to white people and it worked. I don't think they were trying to cross over. They just made really good rap music and it blew up. And it had a gangsta edge to it, so now, the entire industry had to keep pace with them.
Death row was made to be a huge pop explosion purposefully.
As Jimmy knew before he was pitched sonically what dre was and has oublically said this. As eell as rhe pitch from then security management from rmb's top draw in suge knight. Backed publically for showcases and engineering by Harry o.
Death row was made to and put on with Jimmy to take over .
Jimmy knew how to beat rnb from besting Stevie with u2 at the grammy's. All Jimmy needed was a black artist who had the sales in that old production era deal. To capitalize.
Plus every point would be in Jimmy's favor. Even if he gave away a precedent making deal to make it so and make it happen.
i had to separate your response.
as the superficial pop explosion in the world to change and destroy the protection mechanisms in hiphop culture. To cause what we see happening now in hiphop being non distant moving forward. Unless certain things take place.
Kane really didn't have a chance with all these changes, so even if he was selling and putting out dope albums at that time, he would have been forced to change his image. We would have gotten gangsta Kane rapping fast about killing someone during a drug deal.
This was a neg career damning move.
That was not Ahead of its time as a pop centric attempt to purposefully go rnb.
It was a purposeful bad direction that signaled complete doom as a draw and in hiphop culture. You were ostracized for selling out.
Yes it had these records.
Yet kane always had that as a component of having knowledge of self. In the actual prohibitive tale of rap eras start.
Alternatively to that.
kane purposefully souled't out in the very first video on the second album. That the album had to be restrategized. Then they hit us with his opus second single video from this album.
Yet the direction of this album was a rnb submission originally.
Just the subsequent next rnb direction album flop mantra was just beginning. For ll and kane. That kane releasing:
Best vocal tonality and clarity on a smooth rap record ever.
Saved the album in perception to casuals. To the culture. Meaning hiphop culture. Not the misappropriated word culture like those revenue grab culture thieves. Who misappropriate the word culture thief. Sd culture vulture. If amyone say culture vulture to you. They are a culture theif.
in hophop culture meaning actualized skilled people of the pillars of hiphop. It was noted.
that this album lacked in every possible way. Plus it was rhe album.
that introduced ripping fans off in the golden era. By omitting the studio recorded wrath of kane white label b side.
that DISTINCTLY aided in keeping kane.
who kane was perceived as, then as well. To put off what would be the death knell of quincy Jones. followed up by the conclusive for the time career damning taste of chocolate. After the second album.
As kane struggled skill wise in the sonic landscape change going pop horrifically.
It was not till after that. That kane released it looks like a job for. That recommended kane as being kane. Yet being looked at as vulnerable. after g rap number one with a bullet to the stykes war era. Plus the subsequent technical renaissance ushered in by nas. While the Westcoast dominated from a pop sector. Over rmb rock and pop in public perception. To further add to ruthless records runs the world.
Yet at the time.
We could have and should gangsta that period of time. Into being called the death row runs the world era. Which was brough upon by the pop explosion of nikkaz4life with white people as mtv darlings.
.Jimmy iodine just took it another level. Amidst confusion of rock being dead before the Seattle explosion. So Jimmy needing a new industry lead draw and direction. Built of being the alternative to the Jerry seller hair metal public vigilante model.
Also was taking place to create this world. Where the last remnants of hiphop protection mechanisms have been destroyed. To arrive at this very point in 2025. Where it will never move in a positive direction. Just that of a larger period of erosion and doom.
Art Barr
Piff Perkins
Veteran
Honestly I think most major rappers from that era had the same issue: they came up in an era where the DJ or producer was more important than the MC, and therefore largely just followed where they were led. Give me a beat, give me a song title/topic and I’ll write a song. By the 90s things shifted to being more rapper focused and they just couldn’t pick beats or keep up with flows.
KRS was smart enough to get with Premier early in the 90s. G Rap has 456 which has dope beats but how many other top rappers from that era managed to do that?
KRS was smart enough to get with Premier early in the 90s. G Rap has 456 which has dope beats but how many other top rappers from that era managed to do that?
Awesome Wells
The Ghost of Jack Tripper
For those of us watching Kane's falloff back then in real-time, the problem was that he didn't know who he wanted to be.
First two albums were classic. It's A Big Daddy Thing was the first Hip Hop album I copped as a kid, that wasn't a bootleg, lol. Third album is a personal classic, for me. But Kane got caught up in wanting to be on some R&B sh*t because that's where the money was, back then, and more mainstream. He was trying to crossover to the market where people were spending more money on the albums and tours. One time he was on WBLS talking about he was the "rap Keith Sweat". So he started showing up places rocking silk smoking jackets and wearing velvet slippers and sh*t, at shows.
The music got mad weird on some Freddie Jackson sh*t, and he stopped spittin' the way he was on the first couple of albums. Dude started doing nude photoshoots and basically lost himself on some debonair Barry White vibe. Then when the game changed to rawer Hip Hop, he was trying to rock bandanas and Fila visors upside down to look like what he felt "the street" dudes were doing. And even though he was mad young, MC's from the 80's were seen as "old school" by '92. Which was always dumb as sh*t. So Kane was looking crazy out here and like the outta touch uncle who just came home from a two-decade bid upstate. People started booing him at shows in NYC and thinking he was corny. Bro never recovered from that.
First two albums were classic. It's A Big Daddy Thing was the first Hip Hop album I copped as a kid, that wasn't a bootleg, lol. Third album is a personal classic, for me. But Kane got caught up in wanting to be on some R&B sh*t because that's where the money was, back then, and more mainstream. He was trying to crossover to the market where people were spending more money on the albums and tours. One time he was on WBLS talking about he was the "rap Keith Sweat". So he started showing up places rocking silk smoking jackets and wearing velvet slippers and sh*t, at shows.
The music got mad weird on some Freddie Jackson sh*t, and he stopped spittin' the way he was on the first couple of albums. Dude started doing nude photoshoots and basically lost himself on some debonair Barry White vibe. Then when the game changed to rawer Hip Hop, he was trying to rock bandanas and Fila visors upside down to look like what he felt "the street" dudes were doing. And even though he was mad young, MC's from the 80's were seen as "old school" by '92. Which was always dumb as sh*t. So Kane was looking crazy out here and like the outta touch uncle who just came home from a two-decade bid upstate. People started booing him at shows in NYC and thinking he was corny. Bro never recovered from that.
#bars
DaveyDave
Superstar
I wouldn’t go that far. IMO he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hip Hop wasn’t ready for the stuff he was doing so it was looked at as selling out or being soft. If he had come out 10-20 years later he would be seen as a. Pioneer in those fields - RnB joints, soundtracks, acting, modelling, he did a lot that was seen as selling out but these days is seen as diversifying or “staying relevant”
Tribal Outkast
Veteran
People forget this. It’s why that one thread is so classic
That time in 1993 where artists had to switch up and go hardcore
That Gangsta shyt made the industry do a 360... Look at Run DMC: Mc Hammer: DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince Even Vanilla Ice switched his whole shyt and tried to rap like Das Efx :mjlol::russ:
www.thecoli.com
I liked Barry White and I was a huge Kane fan. I was not ready for a mixture of the two over some shyt like this lol. I just wonder where Kane would’ve been if he just got with a Pete Rock or another outside producer.
Mike the Executioner
What went on up there? Poppers and weird sex!
People forget this. It’s why that one thread is so classic
Like soooo many people tried to switch it up. The thing I think Kane had going on was he was trying to lean into some true playa shyt. He was a rapper but he was influenced by older singers and shyt. I just think he was trying to make the most of the moment he had and it backfired on him. I mean I think I was done after hearing thisThat time in 1993 where artists had to switch up and go hardcore
That Gangsta shyt made the industry do a 360... Look at Run DMC: Mc Hammer: DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince Even Vanilla Ice switched his whole shyt and tried to rap like Das Efx :mjlol::russ:
I liked Barry White and I was a huge Kane fan. I was not ready for a mixture of the two over some shyt like this lol. I just wonder where Kane would’ve been if he just got with a Pete Rock or another outside producer.
This is another thing that I believe slowed Kane down. After his first album, Marley Marl stopped producing for him and he was doing the beats mostly by himself. He had people like Prince Paul and Easy Mo Bee come in, but he was essentially J. Cole twenty years ahead. Imagine if Kane got his hands on those Mama Said Knock You Out beats. He would have killed all of them.
The irony is that LL was literally going through the same thing as Kane, but then he let Marley remix "Jingling Baby" and it saved his career.
Kane came to prominence during a transitional period where the creative leaps were plentiful. He was in a sense the culmination of the culture up to that point and made a album that reflected where the art form could go. There was no mold and Kane was a 70s baby to the core. Hov and Kane aren't that far apart in age but America pre and post crack era might as well have been a different country. Kane was a product of his era.
Tommy Gibbs
Superstar
Kane did too. "Show and prove" was a single produced by Primo and included ODB, who was hot off Wutang status at the time. He did the right things, but it was too late.