Bob Cousy and Stephen A Smith on Lebron's ranking all time

BigTyme Records

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Its easy to see Lebron being better than Kobe, Kobe was a far better shooter but Lebron was not far behind scoring wise and far better at everything else.

No disrespect but how the hell is Kobe even a better scorer??


Career playoffs numbers
LeBron - 29/9/7 on 49 fg %

Kobe - 25/5/5 on 44 fg%

Those are they CAREER #s. Its not close.

Career regular season #s

LeBron 27/7/7 on 50 fg%

Kobe 25/5/5 on 45%

Finals #s ain't close either. Bron gives you more points on much less shots. In all stages of the season
 

IllmaticDelta

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hard to see when Kobe has more rings



LeBron is clearly a Magic-esque player, and if we're gonna play the 'skip multiple generations for clout' game, is LeBron ahead of Magic? The fact that they're trying to shoehorn Bron into the MJ convo is just :mjlol: all around. Y'all can't see how forced and deliberate this shyt is?



It's so easy to post memes about this now but that's the point isn't it? Kobe's time is past and the media has stop sucking him, and now is sucking LeBron. Father Time never fails to put people in their right place. But hey, who wants to wait for all that? It's better to force arguments and sell insecurity in the present.


there is actually countless evidence/metrics that show kobe is inferior to lebron and not a top 10 player ever



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Why Kobe Bryant is not a top-10 all-time player

Pelton: Kobe not a top-10 player of all time



Kevin Pelton analyzes Kobe Bryant's all-time #NBARank. Become an Insider today to read the full story

With Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant announcing his retirement from basketball at the end of the 2015-16 season, attention now turns to Bryant's legacy.

Just five months remain in Kobe's career, so this seems like a good time to ask about where he ranks among the all-time greats. In particular, is he one of the 10 best to play the game?

A close reading of the facts suggests the answer is no. As remarkable as his career has been, Bryant's résumé can't quite compare to that of the league's inner-circle Hall of Famers.

Win shares: Kobe ranks No. 15

Win shares, found at Basketball Reference, are our most complete historic NBA metric. They give us a way to compare players across NBA eras.

Although full box-score stats did not become available until 1977-78, when the league started tracking player turnovers, Basketball Reference estimates turnovers and other stats that were not recorded at the time (including steals and blocks before 1973-74) to come up with approximations for player value throughout league history.

Bryant is currently 15th among NBA players in career win shares (172.5), with an outside chance of surpassing Reggie Miller (174.4) by the end of the season, if he improves his level of play. Because he has started so poorly, Bryant has actually lost 0.6 win shares from his career total so far this season.

Expected championships added: Kobe ranks No. 20

As Miller's high ranking suggests, the problem with using win shares as a historic measuring stick is they tend to reward longevity over quality of play. To better reflect the impact players had on their teams, I've developed a model that relates their win shares each season to a typical team's chances of winning a championship.

This model shows value is exponential rather than linear. For instance, a season with 15 win shares (such as Bryant's 2005-06 campaign) is nearly three times as valuable as one with 10 win shares (such as his 2010-11).

A preliminary version of this model shows Bryant 20th all time in expected championships added (ECA), just behind Larry Bird and ahead of the late Moses Malone.

Why Kobe doesn't rate as well by advanced stats

Bryant comes out slightly worse by this method because of his lack of truly elite statistical seasons. Bryant's best season in terms of win shares, 2005-06, ranks 102nd in NBA history behind, for example, Stephen Curry's 2014-15 campaign.

That's fairly consistent with what other advanced metrics indicate. Bryant's 2005-06 performance did rank 56th all-time in PER, but his best season by my wins above replacement player statistic (2002-03, with 20.4 WAR) ranks 72nd, dating back to 1977-78.

ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM) is even harsher. Because of the need for detailed play-by-play data, RPM is available only since 2000-01, but in that span, Bryant's best rating (plus-6.3 points per 100 possessions in 2007-08) ranks 80th in that span.

These all-in-one metrics are universally picking up that by the standards of all-time great scorers, Bryant was relatively inefficient. Bryant's best season in terms of true shooting percentage (.580 in 2006-07) would rank seventh in Michael Jordan's career, seventh in LeBron James' and behind five of Kevin Durant's seven full seasons.

Since Bryant wasn't an exceptional rebounder or distributor and has never rated especially well statistically as a defender, he would need to be better than his peers as a scorer to provide more value than they did. That was only the case in Bryant's very best seasons.


The verdict

Naturally, the arguments in favor of Bryant's greatness are likely to revolve around the five championships the Lakers won during his career. While it's a bad idea to credit team success to one individual, it is true that Bryant's postseason performance is a point in his favor.

He ranks eighth in career playoff win shares. Factoring in playoff value surely lifts Bryant's all-time rank from 20th, but it's harder to make the case that he should jump all the way into the top 10.

It's not just advanced statistics that are down on Bryant's best seasons. He won only one MVP award, which puts him behind the 12 players (including former Lakers teammate Steve Nash) who won the league's highest honor multiple times.

Although there's a case to be made that Bryant should have won in 2005-06, when he set an NBA record for usage rate and carried a limited Lakers team to the playoffs, Bryant benefited from something of a "lifetime achievement" factor in 2007-08, when he beat Kevin Garnett and Chris Paul for the award.

In terms of the share of MVP votes accumulated over the course of his career, Bryant ranks 11th.

Considering all those factors, I'd ultimately rank Bryant somewhere around the 15th-best player in NBA history. You might move him a few spots in either direction, depending how you value playoff performance versus regular-season success, peak value versus longevity and the league's quality of play over time.

But when it comes to cracking the 10 best NBA players ever, Bryant didn't quite accomplish enough in a career that now has a finish line in sight.

Offical Espn Insider Thread

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Gothboi J

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LeBron is the GOAT by default. He's the best player in the best era of the NBA. When Mike was playing damn near a quarter of the NBA was unathletic goofy cacs like jeff hornacheck. Most nba players couldn't even make an open 3. Sorry to offend all the old nikkas on here but it's a reason big men are being phased out the NBA and the game is phasing out iso ball. The nba like all things in life is evolving. Players now are better shooters, more athletic and have better training methods. Half the NBA from the 90s wouldn't even make a roster today
 

SirBiatch

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there is actually countless evidence/metrics that show kobe is inferior to lebron and not a top 10 player ever



ClXdOhhWkAA3H_f.jpg



Why Kobe Bryant is not a top-10 all-time player

Pelton: Kobe not a top-10 player of all time





Offical Espn Insider Thread

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Kobe-vs.-LeBron.jpg

only-3-players-in-nba-history-have-won-more-trophies-than-lebron-james.jpg

B6npe7b.jpg


HRZn62G.jpg

Screen-Shot-2016-04-13-at-11.07.22-AM.png



images


npdLDYP.jpg


Didn't I ever tell you to never quote me with these long ass weirdo pages you do? Do you talk like this in real life? shyt is fukking weird. :dahell:

This dude will say one vague statement then hit you with 50 random ass addendums that you have to dig through to hopefully find your argument and his. Probably does it to make himself seem well read and knowledgeabe. This site man... :laff:
 

Sccit

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exactly. These journalists aren't stupid. They know they can make a career out of dikkriding (or in the odd case, hating) on a once-in-a-lifetime player. It's business.


BINGO

GLAD NOT EVERY1 DUMB ENOUGH TO SIP THE KOOL-AID

AND KOBE ACTUALLY HAS A RESUME COMPARABLE TO MJ’S

LEBRON DOES NOT
 

BaggerofTea

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No disrespect but how the hell is Kobe even a better scorer??


Career playoffs numbers
LeBron - 29/9/7 on 49 fg %

Kobe - 25/5/5 on 44 fg%

Those are they CAREER #s. Its not close.

Career regular season #s

LeBron 27/7/7 on 50 fg%

Kobe 25/5/5 on 45%

Finals #s ain't close either. Bron gives you more points on much less shots. In all stages of the season

I was just tryna give one to the Kobe stans:hubie:
 

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LeBron is the GOAT by default. He's the best player in the best era of the NBA. When Mike was playing damn near a quarter of the NBA was unathletic goofy cacs like jeff hornacheck. Most nba players couldn't even make an open 3. Sorry to offend all the old nikkas on here but it's a reason big men are being phased out the NBA and the game is phasing out iso ball. The nba like all things in life is evolving. Players now are better shooters, more athletic and have better training methods. Half the NBA from the 90s wouldn't even make a roster today


DID U KNOW THAT THERES ONLY BEEN 4 1ST TEAM ALL-NBA SELECTIONS IN THE EASTERN CONFERENCE SINCE 2010

DURING THE SAME TIMESPAN, THERES BEEN 27 IN THE WEST
 

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