Mac Casper
@adonnis - pull up, there's refreshments
Couldn't picture George Clinton doing this funk > jazzI love Bob James for all his influence on the genre, but he dead wrong for this. How much Madlib even make off that?
Bob James Suing Madlib for uncleared samples
- Thread starter Doobie Doo
- Start date
GPBear
The Tape Crusader
Guy's a clown, he called Pharcyde a joke for using his Taxi Theme Song as a sample in a song about taking a cab.
what's funny is I heard about this same day I bought like 3 Bob James records. Sampled them shyts just because fuqq the guy
Long live Lord Quas
edut: Souls of Mischief not Pharcyde, I was the clown all along
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1/2OfDaBruinz
Banned
It will always be a place fr sample based hip hop, because like you stated, it's the essence. And producers have always had to deal with nikkas outing they samples. Listen to DJ Premier rant about this on Royalty. This album came out almost 20 years ago. 4:40 mark
Also, that's part of what publishing companies do. They have people, and I'm sure some type of software, that finds if your song is being used. If it's being done illegally, they collect for you. And to the guy saying that Bob James is wrong for this, he isn't. That man has a right to get his proper compensation for a sample of his original work. He doesn't give a fukk if Madlib made a dollar off that shyt, he deserves his cut if that what he wants. That's how the game goes. Within hip hop, there are a few unwritten rules for things like scrathing hooks and things of that nature, but Bob James ain't hip hop.
It's the same as it has always been, you need to chop the fukk out of some shyt if you don't want to clear it. Even then, it's always a risk. That's part of what makes hip hop unique. Producer try to pull off musical heist. Sometimes they get caught
Madlib was being lazy, because he is way too skilled and knowledgeable of the game to take a 2-3 second loop of one of the most recognizable and sampled songs in music, especially hip hop, then put it on a commercial release. On top of that, Bob James has a history of collecting from hip hop producers. Madlib knew better, he just got burnt.
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GPBear
The Tape Crusader
Gotta give Madlib daps for finding a new section of Nautilus to get sued over in 2015 though
Piff Perkins
Veteran
Bob James is god tier. Can't hate on the man.
Stones Throw lost. But then again if Stones Throw cleared all samples there would be no Stones Throw...
Stones Throw lost. But then again if Stones Throw cleared all samples there would be no Stones Throw...
1/2OfDaBruinz
Banned
It depends a a lot of factors. Whoever owns the rights may want a flat fee, royalties, or both. Then they might want to own a certain percentage of the song. You may have to pay someone a fee just to track down the rightful owner of the sample if it's obscure, or if they are not with the major publishers like BMI and them. That shyt is mostly for people with deals and access to sample clearance departments and major record label lawyers. It's probably too expensive for an independent.
If you are an independent artist, and get a cease and desist letter for an uncleared sample, you are probably doing something right, and I would go from there.
Mac Casper
@adonnis - pull up, there's refreshments
Co-sign last paragraph
What percentage of royalties are they normally getting for a sample?
Doobie Doo
Veteran
I love Bob James for all his influence on the genre, but he dead wrong for this. How much Madlib even make off that?
Honestly it's either Madlib or Stone's Throws Fault. I know we are all hiphop heads here and wanna defend Madlib but he's in the wrong here. Either he shouldn't choose such a recognizable sample to use if he knew they weren't going to clear it or it's Stones throw fault for not clearing if they said they would.
Bob James is a notoriously hard artist to sample because he has always disliked hiphop and has always charged an arm n leg to sample him. I've talked to execs from the 90s who said he charged artist 100,000 to sample his works. Of course in the 90s 100Gs to a clear sample wasn't shyt. But him, Phil Collins, Steely Dan and other artist hate being sampled and will put you thru it if you try to sample them. I'm a small time player in the music industry so I know Madlib (whose been around since the 90s) knew that.
C'mon Madlib, you gotta chop that shyt up. You can't sample Nautilis without clearing it and take a loop. I don't even think the nikka changed the pitch at all.
I'd love to be on a jury for a sampling case. During deliberations: "these two songs sound nothing alike brehs"
"I think we gotta find for the defense brehs"
"By the way, anybody got Madlib in their top 5 GOAT producers?"
"All original music brehs"
GPBear
The Tape Crusader
Whenever these lawsuits happen, not only do they get their money, they also always like to take an extra step and start being all
"The thing about Rap and Hip-Hop music is..." as if they know what hip-hop's real seedy intentions are
This time it's even worse because he's like "They sample because they can't play their own music" which would be true-ish if it were pretty much any other producer other than Madlib. It's just straight overly disrespectful. I'm not sitting here burning copyright laws, he'll win the case and we'll probably never get another Quas album, but god damn Bob James put his foot in his mouth
"The thing about Rap and Hip-Hop music is..." as if they know what hip-hop's real seedy intentions are
This time it's even worse because he's like "They sample because they can't play their own music" which would be true-ish if it were pretty much any other producer other than Madlib. It's just straight overly disrespectful. I'm not sitting here burning copyright laws, he'll win the case and we'll probably never get another Quas album, but god damn Bob James put his foot in his mouth
1/2OfDaBruinz
Banned
For well known songs it's can be common to get a fifty/fifty publishing split. Some artist make such outrageous demands that the person that wants to sample them is just on some
Also it depends on the likely success of the song. If it's a well known artist who is likely to sell a bunch of records, then it's common for the person getting sampled to want a higher royalty, but if it's a lesser known artist who isn't likely to sell a bunch of records, then then the focus is usually on a higher flat fee and less so on the royalties.
Then it depends on how much of the song is being taken too. If you just wanna take a huge part of the composition on some
shyt, then the more likely the sampled artist wants a higher fee or percentage.
Insensitive
Superstar
I'd rather languish in obscurity than rely on someone else's music to make
my money.
Plus I just don't have to worry about the legal land mines that I could step on.
I still remember that old Jazz musician who bragged about how much he hated
Hip Hop when he was coming after Kendrick/TDE over the Rigor Mortis sample.
Mac Casper
@adonnis - pull up, there's refreshments
For well known songs it's can be common to get a fifty/fifty publishing split. Some artist make such outrageous demands that the person that wants to sample them is just on someshyt and just gives up.
Also it depends on the likely success of the song. If it's a well known artist who is likely to sell a bunch of records, then it's common for the person getting sampled to want a higher royalty, but if it's a lesser known artist who isn't likely to sell a bunch of records, then then the focus is usually on a higher flat fee and less so on the royalties.
Then it depends on how much of the song is being taken too. If you just wanna take a huge part of the composition on some
Dude wanted $2,000 flat fee plus 50 percent of royalty and 100% of publishing
Say you do the song with just the sample - no producer 50 percent of royalty would kind of be like a rapper just hiring a producer to do the beat so you would share the writing portion and composition portion
I love Latina women
Veteran
bob james has blessed me with more piff than madlib has