Just basic logic. Past commercial performance should factor into present day streaming. One would expect Puff to outstream Cormega for example, just based in past commercial performance.
Bone Thugs E. 1999 Eternal-Top 5 Album of All Time
- Thread starter El Bombi
- Start date
Great album all around.
There is no “most streamed albums of the 90s” list. There is a top 100 list of which only 4 albums are from the 90s.
NY State of Mind was an album cut. That speaks to people really fukking with the abum as a whole as opposed to just streaming the single.
Plus, since Illmatic didn’t break through mainstream at all, and doesn’t have a commercial sound, it’s not going to outstream 2001 or Vol 2. You have to look at how it performs compared to how it performed in real time.
For example, if it outstreamed Warren G’s album, that would really be something.
The people who stream Don’t Cha but no other Busta songs (p*ssycat doll fans) would count toward Busta’s monthly listener count. How many people do you think that is? 5?
Obviously neither of us know the precise number, but since it is his biggest song and a complete outlier, it has to be something significant. 1-2 million seems reasonable. But I don’t know.
Just to give you an example. "What's The Difference" was not a single. It is one of his most streamed songs sitting at 266 million listens. That's more listens than "NY State of Mind", which also was never a single. I could then conclude, based on your logic that "What's The Difference" is a more timeless song and that 2001 is more timeless than Illmatic based on the fact that 2001 is THE most streamed album of the 90's and that would not change anything at all even if the list was limited to just the 90's. And to keep it funky, "Still Dre" peaked at like 90 something during its initial run and that's his most streamed song. It only peaked at #23 in 2022 when he performed the song at the Super Bowl. That song has more streams than "Forgot About Dre" (and this features Eminem) and "Next Episode", which peaked and performed higher during their initial runs.
We have no way of knowing whether Illmatic outstreamed Regulate and that's one of the things I have been trying to get you to see since you want to argue that E. 1999 isn't timeless. Whether or not it was mainstream or not is no excuse considering what Wu did with 36 Chambers.
What’s the Difference features Eminem.
Either way, Illmatic and 2001 aren’t supposed to do the same numbers. For the millionth time, you have to look at context and evaluate from there.
And I’m not taking anything away from 2001 it’s obviously stood the test of time and should be doing those numbers
That’s crazy. Obviously one of those billboard anomalies that happens from time to time. It was an immediate classic and all over the place. It’s the reason Dre did 500k first week, and before you argue that Dr was gonna do those numbers even if the single was wack
Been There Done That
We don’t have that specific data, but that doesn’t mean we have no data.
I assume you are bringing up 36 Chambers because you are going to provide receipts that most non commercial NY albums from the 93-94 era went platinum? Surely you wouldn’t bring up the exception and try to pass it off as the rule? That would be an egregious bad faith argument.
What’s the Difference features Eminem.
Either way, Illmatic and 2001 aren’t supposed to do the same numbers. For the millionth time, you have to look at context and evaluate from there.
And I’m not taking anything away from 2001 it’s obviously stood the test of time and should be doing those numbers
Of course, "What's The Difference" feature Eminem. My point was that even with an Eminem feature "Forgot About Dre" is still lower than "Still Dre" in regard to streaming and BOTH were singles and "Forgot About Dre" was bigger song on the charts.
Another fact is that Dre isn't just doing these numbers on Spotify. "Still Dre" sits at 1 billion views on Youtube.
I do look at context. Nobody looks at any of these albums and assumes they are gonna do the same or similar numbers for whatever reason and that is a huge part that I am trying to get you to understand. There are all kinds of variables involved to just come to the conclusion that x artist should be doing y in regard to streaming compared to another artist. It doesn't work like that.
I can guarantee you NOBODY expected Dre to do the numbers he did in 1999. He came off of some flops and even with Eminem's success, there was hesitance because of his own legacy. And certainly NOBODY would guess 2001 would be the most streamed 90's album regardless of what it sold in real time.
And could we please stop trying to push Illmatic as anti- mainstream? Nas is a rapper I consider GOAT, but they dropped a single that sampled Michael Jackson's "Human Nature". Iconic album, but it was slow burner of an album that was initially slept on. No excuse as to why. It happens. Fortunately, people went back and checked the album as Nas became more famous.
The audacity of you trying to claim that you have been arguing “context” in this thread when you were really arguing this:
If there was a spectrum with “Mainstream” and “Underground” on the ends, in terms of sound, where would you put Illmatic? Closer to Mainstream?
To me it’s solidly undeground, but if you want to make a stink about a Michael Jackson sample I’m fine with it being one click off the 100% underground side. So 99% underground.
Again, I’m just talking the sound.
You literally agreed by saying "we don't have the specific data, but that doesn't mean we don't have some data". When I asked you about how "Don't Cha" having 300 million views accounted for Busta having 2 million more monthly listeners than Nas, you couldn't answer that.
And to put this whole "Don't Cha" being the catalyst for Busta having over 10 million monthly listeners to rest, DMX and Nas have about the same amount of monthly listeners. DMX's "X Gon Give It To Ya" had 526 million streams. Nas has no song with anywhere near that amount of streams, but they have about the same amount of monthly listeners. Busta has more than both and "Don't Cha" has nowhere near the amount of streams of "X Gon Give It To Ya" despite it being more recent and much bigger on the charts. "Party Up" is X's biggest chart hit and it isn't bigger.
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Breh, this is clowning at this point. There no such thing as specific percentages in underground and Mainstream. It is either underground or Mainstream. Nas was NOT an underground rapper in 1994. This was Nas dropping on Sony/Columbia who was basically labelmates with Michael Jackson and not Jeru The Damaja on Payday Records. Sonically, I don't see how it differed from Craig Mack's Flava In Ya Ear aside from Illmatic having better production. Both Mainstream albums . It doesn't differ much sonically from Ready To Die either. Only difference is Ready To Die has two songs with Total singing and another song that features Diana King.