Tha Sircus
Pro
I didn't ever say he was awful. But he is not better than Kobe. Or any of those other greats mentioned to be in the top 10.
Brian Scalabrine: Kobe is top 15-25 player of all time
- Thread starter SpursFanSinceNovember2017
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I didn't ever say he was awful. But he is not better than Kobe. Or any of those other greats mentioned to be in the top 10.
waltthizzney
All Star
360Waves
2 girls and they get along like I'm Lou Will
They have the same amount of MVPs.
The same amount of Finals MVPs. Kobe has more rings which is the go-to argument for every Bean dikk-rider, but Shaq is responsible for those 3. For his first "ring" Kobe averaged 15.6ppg on 37% shooting, something Kobe stans seem to consistently overlook.
That's not to say Kobe didn't play a huge role..but he wouldn't have gotten them without Shaq. On the other hand, Hakeem has as many FMVPS as Kobe while playing on a Rockets team that was objectively speaking, ass, outside of him. All the while shytting on rival bigs en route to his ring and actually posting good NBA finals numbers as the man, something Kobe has never done. (If you're going to say he has then you also have to admit LeBron's 2015 Finals Performance was great, b/c much like Kobe, he posted 28+ ppg on shoddy percentages. But you won't do that, b/c you're a Kobe stan.)Hakeem is one of the most dominant defensive players EVER. 2x DPOY. Is the all time blocks leader. Averaged 3+ blocks for his career and had multiple 4+ block seasons, including a season where he posted 4.6 per game. Even more impressive when you consider he was the main option and offense and carried the load. I get it, I get it, not fair to compare the defense of a big to a guard. But the fact of the matter is, Olajuwon literally carried the load for his team on both ends of the floor at all times in his prime--something Kobe can't say.
And getting outside the numbers for a minute, Hakeem is revolutionary. He was doing things that were absolutely unheard for big men at the time and even most modern bigs, no matter how much $$$ they pay to get tutoring from him and other coaches, have failed to replicate his game. Meanwhile, Kobe's entire game came straight out of "How to be a poor-man's Michael Jordan" for $2.99.
nikka please.
Where were the chants in 96???
06 was a message to management and well...they responded
It's almost impossible to compare players across different eras. Who can really tell you whether, say, Kevin Durant is better than Oscar Robertson? What does that even mean? Which one would win one-on-one, or which one was a better all-around player skill-wise, or which one contributed to his team's success more, or which one was more dominant in hs own era....?
But if we're just going on one's accomplishments, nah, Kobe ain't top-10, but he's almost certainly top-25. He is a fantastic volume shooter, maybe the greatest of all time.
* He's missed more shots than any player in NBA history - by the time this year is over, he may have missed 1000 more shots than any player in NBA history.
* He's missed more shots in the playoffs than any player in NBA history.
* From 2006 to 2012 he led the league in missed shots 6 times, a period unmatched in NBA history.
* He's missed at least 20 shots in a game 45 different times, 3rd most in NBA history
* For post-1985 numbers (that's what Basketball Reference has)
- He has the record for most shots missed in a single season (1195)
- He has the record for most shots missed in a single game (30)
- Of the 17 times in the last thirty years that a player has taken at least 40 shots in a game, Kobe has 8 of those games, including the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th most shots taken in a game.
* He has consistently been able to go into the closing minutes of a tight game and miss 5, 6, or more shots in a row, yet still continues shooting, with a steely will not remotely indented by his open yet inferior teammates begging for the ball.
Only Jordan was as good a volume shooter as Kobe, and it's close. Jordan, of course, was far more efficient when he shot, and was also better at rebounding, passing, defense, and team leadership. But in terms of pure volume shooting, it's Jordan and Kobe, and then it's everyone else.
That alone should get Kobe into the top-25 all-time, and I'll argue to the death against anyone who says differently.
But if we're just going on one's accomplishments, nah, Kobe ain't top-10, but he's almost certainly top-25. He is a fantastic volume shooter, maybe the greatest of all time.
* He's missed more shots than any player in NBA history - by the time this year is over, he may have missed 1000 more shots than any player in NBA history.
* He's missed more shots in the playoffs than any player in NBA history.
* From 2006 to 2012 he led the league in missed shots 6 times, a period unmatched in NBA history.
* He's missed at least 20 shots in a game 45 different times, 3rd most in NBA history
* For post-1985 numbers (that's what Basketball Reference has)
- He has the record for most shots missed in a single season (1195)
- He has the record for most shots missed in a single game (30)
- Of the 17 times in the last thirty years that a player has taken at least 40 shots in a game, Kobe has 8 of those games, including the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th most shots taken in a game.
* He has consistently been able to go into the closing minutes of a tight game and miss 5, 6, or more shots in a row, yet still continues shooting, with a steely will not remotely indented by his open yet inferior teammates begging for the ball.
Only Jordan was as good a volume shooter as Kobe, and it's close. Jordan, of course, was far more efficient when he shot, and was also better at rebounding, passing, defense, and team leadership. But in terms of pure volume shooting, it's Jordan and Kobe, and then it's everyone else.
That alone should get Kobe into the top-25 all-time, and I'll argue to the death against anyone who says differently.
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It's almost impossible to compare players across different eras. Who can really tell you whether, say, Kevin Durant is better than Oscar Robertson? What does that even mean? Which one would win one-on-one, or which one was a better all-around player skill-wise, or which one contributed to his team's success more, or which one was more dominant in hs own era....?
But if we're just going on one's accomplishments, nah, Kobe ain't top-10, but he's almost certainly top-25. He is a fantastic volume shooter, maybe the greatest of all time.
* He's missed more shots than any player in NBA history - by the time this year is over, he may have missed 1000 more shots than any player in NBA history.
* He's missed more shots in the playoffs than any player in NBA history.
* From 2006 to 2012 he led the league in missed shots 6 times, a period unmatched in NBA history.
* He's missed at least 20 shots in a game 45 different times, 3rd most in NBA history
* For post-1985 numbers (that's what Basketball Reference has)
- He has the record for most shots missed in a single season (1195)
- He has the record for most shots missed in a single game (30)
- Of the 17 times in the last thirty years that a player has taken at least 40 shots in a game, Kobe has 8 of those games, including the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th most shots taken in a game.
* He has consistently been able to go into the closing minutes of a tight game and miss 5, 6, or more shots in a row, yet still continues shooting, with a steely will not remotely indented by his open yet inferior teammates begging for the ball.
Only Jordan was as good a volume shooter as Kobe, and it's close. Jordan, of course, was far more efficient when he shot, and was also better at rebounding, passing, defense, and team leadership. But in terms of pure volume shooting, it's Jordan and Kobe, and then its everyone else.
That alone should get Kobe into the top-25 all-time, and I'll argue to the death against anyone who says differently.
you points are invaid. As if anybody cares he has the record for most missed shots. Seriously?
Tha Sircus
Pro
This is the perfect epitome of every Kobestan.
Their eyes are so blinded that they take the best moments of their hero, and the worst moments of the one they hate, and use that as their only comparison. And it's usually something that happened in the regular season.
Kobe, of course, has missed both ends of huge free throw trips in the closing seconds of Game 7.
Lebron, of course, has made enormously clutch free throws in the closing minutes of playoff games.
But Kobestans ignore that. What matters to them is free throws missed during random regular season games. That's the true measure of a top-10 all-time player.
It's almost impossible to compare players across different eras. Who can really tell you whether, say, Kevin Durant is better than Oscar Robertson? What does that even mean? Which one would win one-on-one, or which one was a better all-around player skill-wise, or which one contributed to his team's success more, or which one was more dominant in hs own era....?
But if we're just going on one's accomplishments, nah, Kobe ain't top-10, but he's almost certainly top-25. He is a fantastic volume shooter, maybe the greatest of all time.
* He's missed more shots than any player in NBA history - by the time this year is over, he may have missed 1000 more shots than any player in NBA history.
* He's missed more shots in the playoffs than any player in NBA history.
* From 2006 to 2012 he led the league in missed shots 6 times, a period unmatched in NBA history.
* He's missed at least 20 shots in a game 45 different times, 3rd most in NBA history
* For post-1985 numbers (that's what Basketball Reference has)
- He has the record for most shots missed in a single seasonv(1195)
- He has the record for most shots missed in a single game (30)
- Of the 17 times in the last thirty years that a player has taken at least 40 shots in a game, Kobe has 8 of those games, including the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th most shots taken in a game.
* He has consistently been able to go into the closing minutes of a tight game and miss 5, 6, or more shots in a row, yet still continues shooting, with a steely will not remotely indented by his open yet inferior teammates begging for the ball.
Only Jordan was as good a volume shooter as Kobe, and it's close. Jordan, of course, was far more efficient when he shot, and was also better at rebounding, passing, defense, and team leadership. But in terms of pure volume shooting, it's Jordan and Kobe, and then its everyone else.
That alone should get Kobe into the top-25 all-time, and I'll argue to the death against anyone who says differently.
Yo those stats were cute and all but it's not about stats for me "stats are for losers" Lebron time and time again has shown me he is simply a loser. I don't hate him at all if you look at my prior comments you will see I said that. Lemme ask you something did Kobe lose that game 7? Did lebron win championships because of those "clutch freethrows" Lol( I really don't know that's why I'm asking). Lebron leaves games rutinely because he's "tired" or has "cramps" and on the other hand we have a Kobe who never wants to leave the court he always wants to be playing. I just don't understand what people see in lebron cause all I see is a team hopping ring chaser who chokes more often than he delivers
Tha Sircus
Pro
Plus you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. I wonder where lebron would rank in passed up open shots?
Where were the chants in 96???
06 was a message to management and well...they responded
HE WAS GETTIN KOBE CHANTS IN THE GARDEN JUS LAST WEEK
Sympathy chants brehHE WAS GETTIN KOBE CHANTS IN THE GARDEN JUS LAST WEEK
I can see an argument for #11 even if I'd place him higher, no lower. Problem with comparing West/Robertson and to a lesser extent Wilt/Russell is they were playing in a far more fast paced era and played more minutes, the league wasn't quite as developed as it's been in the past 30 years since the league didn't truly take off until the Magic/Bird rivalry. You can't look strictly at per 100 numbers because that won't factor the added fatigue of playing 30+ possessions on a game to game basis but if players then could do it then I think today's better conditioned athletes can rival and possibly exceed those numbers.
Lots of factors in play, it's hard to compare guys that never played against each other
Lots of factors in play, it's hard to compare guys that never played against each other
Bilz
Superstar
If rings are a measure of achievement, then why do Bynum and Arizas health have anything to do with Kobes ring count? Using your own logic, Kobe didn't win in 2008 because he simply wasn't good enough. He would have the same 5 rings if he played with Smush Parker his whole career or if he played on an allstar team so there is no need to discuss hypotheticals. Sorry if you don't like this but it's your own script
If you were a real student of the game, you wouldn't dismiss statistics. They measure what actually happens on the court. Stats can be misleading and they can also be misinterpreted, but the eye test is far more unreliable, especially when they're the eyes of a biased Stan.
DoubleClutch
Superstar
THe White Mamba has spoken 
Exactly. People act like Kobe wouldn't go OFF on every single one of those dudes. shyt, dude is the originator of the insanely uncessarily difficult long rang shot and literally would have no problem posterizing cats from any era. He spend the mid-90s thru early 2010 doing that shyt so whats to say he wouldn't do it in any other era. Same with Jordan. MJ wouldn't fukkin torch these cats before him with reckless abandon considering how much a psychopath we've learned that he was/is.
DoubleClutch
Superstar
prime ai and prime shaq wouldve won more titles than Kobe and Shaq too