Caller makes a good point on why Steve Nash was the MVP

[Remote]

If you actually watched the games you could have seen how the entire team and system was predicated on Nash and fell apart when he wasnt on the floor. With him they were one of the best teams in the league, without him they would routinely get smoked by the bottom feeders of the NBA.

Or, you know, you could base all your opinions on a flawed "win shares" stat and be a nerd upset at reality

It's not like Nash was 3rd in WS and won the MVP.

He wasn't even CLOSE, breh.

I'm not advocating the top WS player to get the MVP.
But you can't be fukkING 11TH!

 

[Consumed]

Win Shares is one example...and it's INFINITELY better and more unbiased than "narratives"

Nah, win shares is a pretty bad stat and if its telling you that Marion > Nash thats a problem.

Just saying that its nothing to be upset over when MVP historically is decided a certain way, and I personally don't put any stock in the award when arguing players over the other. Shaq and Kobe having 1 MVP doesn't mean shyt.

 

[Remote]

Nah, win shares is a pretty bad stat and if its telling you that Marion > Nash thats a problem.

Just saying that its nothing to be upset over when MVP historically is decided this way, don't put a ton of stock in the award when arguing players over the other. MVP does not automatically mean best player in the league and you should not take it that way. Shaq and Kobe having 1 MVP doesn't mean shyt.

That's not how stats work.
You don't get to say "This stat doesn't jive with my belief so it's no good"

 

[Consumed]

That's not how stats work.
You don't get to say "This stat doesn't jive with my belief so it's no good"

I would never, ever use win shares to rank two players. Stats in general shouldn't be used to put guys over the other with no context

 

[Remote]

I would never, ever use win shares to rank two players. Stats in general shouldn't be used to put guys over the other with no context

If you actually took a look at the season leaders in WS and compared them to the MVP, WS is has it right almost every single year.

And you know it.

 

[Consumed]

If you actually took a look at the season leaders in WS and compared them to the MVP, WS is has it right almost every single year.

And you know it.

I don't know that. Did you have a problem with Allen Iverson being 10th in win shares in 2001

 

[malbaker86]

Nash earned both of them tbh

 

[Remote]

I don't know that. Did you have a problem with Allen Iverson being 10th in win shares in 2001

He had a great season for the Sixers.
He didn't deserve it.

In the last 10 years, every single player who won the MVP was at least in the top 4 in WS.
That's not a coincidence.

In fact, going back 20 years, the only 3 times the MVP was NOT in the Top 4 in WS were the 2 years Nash won it...and the 1 year Iverson won it.

So no, they didn't deserve it.
Fine seasons, but others were more deserving. Narratives be damned.

 

[Reggie]

Nash gets knocked for winning the award and it's probably more so cause he got 2 instead of just 1 while cats like Kobe and Shaq only have 1 a piece. Considering the Suns won like 30 more games the season they got him and Shaq joined a team that was already in the playoffs is an argument that fans of him winning in 05 have for him. And in 06 his squad didn't miss a beat without Amare and Kobe's team didn't have enough success to win it. Though I think Bron has a stronger argument then anyone of being robbed in 06 I can see Nash having one but it really isn't any good reason for him to have two of them.

 

[Jplaya2023]

In 2005 he was 11th in win shares
In 2006 he was 8th.

And he wasn't anywhere close to the leader in those years.
There's not a chance in hell he deserved any of those awards.

Winshares what was the suns winning % in games nash missed

 

[Remote]

Winshares what was the suns winning % in games nash missed

20 years and 17 of the MVPs were in the top 4 in WS.

The only 3 times they weren't were the years Nash and Iverson won the awards.

The stat is more accurate than these feel-good stories the coli likes to perpetrate.

 

[the cool]

Nash earned both of them tbh

he earned the first one no doubt but the second one surprised the shyt out of me real talk. i was like

funfact: nash nash nowtizki won three straight mvp for cacs

 

[Archangel]

@Consumed my friend, ye hath made excellent points. Superb posting.

 

[Consumed]

He had a great season for the Sixers.
He didn't deserve it.

In the last 10 years, every single player who won the MVP was at least in the top 4 in WS.
That's not a coincidence.

In fact, going back 20 years, the only 3 times the MVP was NOT in the Top 4 in WS were the 2 years Nash won it...and the 1 year Iverson won it.

So no, they didn't deserve it.
Fine seasons, but others were more deserving. Narratives be damned.

You missed Derrick Rose in 2011 - finished just outside the top 4 while playing 81 games, noteworthy b/c win shares are an accumulative stat and both Nash/Iverson missed several games with injury.

The runner up in 2005 was Shaq. He was 10th in win shares and I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be having this conversation had he won.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they didn't deserve their awards, but I would agree that there were several better players in the league at the time.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

It's not like Nash was 3rd in WS and won the MVP.

He wasn't even CLOSE, breh.

I'm not advocating the top WS player to get the MVP.
But you can't be fukkING 11TH!

Do you even know how Win Shares are formulated?