He went with the thunder. Still, d'antoni's offense wont get him a ring.
Can someone explain WTF is "Bron Ball"
- Thread starter Darealtwo1
- Start date
He went with the thunder. Still, d'antoni's offense wont get him a ring.
What positive attitudes are players giving up to play with Bron? The only example is Bosh rebounding and probably scoring.
Harden gets ripped for not playing defense and not fading into the locker room in big moments. But when it comes to offense and dominating the ball nobody gives him shyt for it the way they like to do LeBron.
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
Kevin Love and Chris Bosh were both 26 and 10 guys getting their own shots, they became little more than 3 point shooters playing with Lebron
This is why i say, if you're a lakers fan and want Lebron to do this to Lonzo and Ingram, you need your stan card revoked
We talk all the time on this board about guys who might be good players but not necessarily #1 men on chip caliber teams. Bosh and Love had 7 and 6 years pre-Bron to prove otherwise. They were third options but how many third options in the modern Era are averaging 17 & 7 and 19 & 11? Do we expect them to join a player who is obviously better and continting averaging alpha dog numbers?
And those are 2 players out of a gang of players who LeBron has played next to but let ya'll tell it Chalmers, Shumpert and Tristan should be All-Stars if not for LeBron "stunting" them.
The point being made is that those guys are forced to sacrifice in the bron ball system, whereas in a system more emphasized on ball movement everyone sacrifices a little to accomplish their goal. When KD came over both Curry and KD averaged less (Klay averaged about the same numbers but he's not ball dominant anyway.). The way LeBron has developed his game, he can't fit in a system, he IS the system.
I've been telling Laker fans they better tell Magic they don't want Lebron in LA. He will wreck whatever progress they've made. He can't shoot and he can't play without ball so he kills Lonzo's game, he plays the same position as Ingram so Ingram goes to the benchThis is why i say, if you're a lakers fan and want Lebron to do this to Lonzo and Ingram, you need your stan card revoked
catskill247
All Star
3 championships sounds great to me
lets see how many championships chris paul ball, melo ball won, is kawhi ball winning multiple championships? There is no currently active player in the league who's won more championships as the alpha than Bron right now. Not a role player, 6th player, complementary piece, robin, but THE alpha.
Curry probably getting his 3rd ring this year to tie with Bron. As a Bron fan there was alot to go through to get the 3 rings which I enjoyed everyone. But thinking that curry wiil get his 3rd makes me feel some type of way
And his "system" has won him 3 titles.
Golden State is one of the faster paced teams in a league faster than just 5 years ago when Miami was dominant. They're an anomaly and their 3-pointers tack on extra points individually. Other than there no teams assembled where players don't sacrifice touches/shots. Hell KD's percentage went up partially because his FGA went down to 16-17 from his usual 19-20, as did Curry's. Criticizing LeBron for his team's third best player not taking a certain number shots doesn't make much sense.
Find me third options post-Magic/Bird era who put up the numbers Bosh and Love have and won rings.
It's less about the numbers and more about the confidence in their games diminishing.
You're taking guys who were used to getting touches every other play, ripping the ball out of their hand for long periods of time, and then asking them to hit big time shots the few times they do get it. If they make it, it's because Lebron fed them the ball and if they miss it's because they suck and can't handle pressure.
Well the pre-Bron/post-Magic/Bird era wasn't made up of superteams like the Heat/Cavs/Warriors so of course not many players were even All-NBA All-Star third options...maybe Ray Allen? But again that's not the point. I wasn't criticizing LeBron for making his third option sacrifice. In fact I didn't even say it didn't work, I just said Bron doesn't sacrifice anything and dictates every play. That's what bron ball is, and the OP told us to explain what it is...
Y'all need to understand that bron ball isn't us trying to marginalize LeBron's accomplishments, it's simply the way he plays the game. Stop being defensive.
Maybe not for you but for most posters who use the term this is false.
IllmaticDelta
Veteran
kevin love + lebron and bosh + lebron are great together as duos. being 3rd option is where they struggled.Go look at the numbers.
The 2015-2016 stats, the championship season
Code:
WITH and WITHOUT LeBron James
WITH min per 48 | WITHOUT min per 48 | DIFFERENCE
Frye + 3.9 8.2 + 22.8 | - 2.1 10.7 - 9.4 | +32.2
Delly + 5.6 16.8 + 16.0 | - 0.1 9.1 - 0.5 | +16.5
Shumpert + 3.4 12.5 + 13.1 | + 0.3 12.8 + 1.1 | +11.9
Thompson + 5.6 20.7 + 13.0 | - 0.9 8.8 - 4.9 | +17.9
Love + 6.7 27.4 + 11.7 | - 0.8 6.2 - 6.2 | +17.9
Smith + 5.3 26.9 + 9.5 | - 1.0 6.3 - 7.6 | +17.1
Irving + 4.2 23.6 + 8.5 | 0.0 10.0 0.0 | + 8.5
Jefferso + 1.0 7.3 + 6.6 | - 1.3 12.7 - 4.9 | +11.5
Williams + 1.9 15.8 + 5.8 | - 2.7 6.3 -20.6 | +26.3These are outrageous numbers. The kind of difference LeBron makes is huge. Without LeBron on court, each player gets net losses across the board. With him, massive positives. The difference is staggering.
As a comparison, here are the same with-without +/- stats for the other members of the "Big 3". Or perhaps "massive 1 and biggish 2"?
Irving:
Code:
WITH and WITHOUT Irving
WITH WITHOUT
"+/-" min per 48 "+/-" min per 48 DIFFERENCE
James + 4.2 23.6 + 8.5 | + 5.4 20.4 + 12.7 | - 4.2
Smith + 2.3 22.2 + 5.0 | + 2.5 15.8 + 7.6 | - 2.6
Thompson + 4.4 27.7 + 7.6 | + 3.9 31.5 + 5.9 | + 1.7
Love + 2.8 23.1 + 5.8 | + 3.9 17.3 +10.8 | - 5.0
Shumpert + 1.1 13.0 + 4.1 | + 2.4 12.8 + 9.0 | - 4.9
Delly + 1.4 8.8 + 7.6 | + 4.3 19.8 +10.4 | - 2.8
Frye + 0.7 9.6 + 3.5 | + 0.6 9.2 + 3.1 | + 0.4
Jeffers + 0.6 8.0 + 3.6 | - 0.9 13.3 - 3.2 | + 6.8
Willia - 1.0 3.5 -13.7 | - 1.0 17.6 - 2.7 | -11.0This doesn't paint Irving's impact on his teammates in a particularly positive light. He is getting big credit for stepping up in the Finals, but his impact based on regular season +/- is not as impressive, especially for a "superstar". Statistically, the other two of the Big 3 actually preferred when they are playing without Irving. And this applies to several others too. Dissing Irving might be a dangerous thing to do around here, so I will just say: basketball is a team game.
And Love:
Code:
WITH and WITHOUT Love
WITH | WITHOUT |
+/- min per 48 | "+/-" min per 48 | DIFFERENCE
James + 6.7 27.4 + 11.7 | + 1.8 9.7 + 8.9 | + 2.8
Irving + 2.8 23.1 + 5.8 | + 1.4 10.5 + 6.4 | - 0.6
Smith + 3.3 23.8 + 6.7 | + 0.9 8.4 + 5.1 | + 1.5
Thompson + 4.0 16.6 + 11.6 | + 0.7 12.4 + 2.7 | + 8.9
Shumpert + 2.8 11.0 + 12.2 | + 0.8 14.4 + 2.7 | + 9.6
Delly + 4.5 14.1 + 15.3 | + 0.8 11.4 + 3.4 | + 12.0
Frye - 1.0 5.0 - 9.6 | + 1.7 15.5 + 5.3 | - 14.9
Jefferson + 0.1 7.5 + 0.6 | - 0.7 11.5 - 2.9 | + 3.6
Williams + 1.4 14.7 + 4.6 | - 2.4 7.1 -16.2 | + 20.8To honour the departing Delly, here is how the Cavs players played with and without him. Somehow Delly seems to add more value that the lesser 2 of the Big 3.
Delly:
Code:
WITH and WITHOUT Delly
WITH | WITHOUT |
"+/-" min per 48 | "+/-" min per 48 | DIFFERENCE
James +5.6 16.8 +16.0 | +3.0 20.4 +7.1 | +8.9
Irving +1.4 8.8 +7.6 | +2.8 24.7 +5.4 | +2.2
Smith +3.2 12.6 +12.2 | +1.2 19.4 +3.0 | +9.2
Thompson +3.0 15.2 +9.5 | +1.6 13.8 +5.6 | +3.9
Love +4.5 14.1 +15.3 | +1.4 18.5 +3.6 | +11.7
Shumpert +2.3 13.9 +7.9 | +1.4 11.7 +5.7 | +2.2
Frye +0.3 10.7 +1.3 | +1.0 7.7 +6.2 | -4.9
Jeffers +0.9 10.6 +4.1 | -1.5 8.4 -8.6 | +12.6
Williams +1.8 7.3 +11.8 | -2.4 14.7 -7.8 | +19.7