Can someone explain WTF is "Bron Ball"

[Freshology]

It's when you're relegated watching Lebron dribble and waiting for late shot clock kick outs.

Also, giving up positive attributes of your game so Lebron can get all of the credit and when your numbers drop the media can blame you for the team's failure.

But we all know that's not true. Who get's blamed more for the team's failures than Lebron??

 

[Rakim Allah]

"Bron Ball" is the reason we didn't see Kobe vs Bron in 09 Finals.

Give up multiple 20 pt leads to a D Howard led team brehs.

 

[Shadow King]

he turns them into corner shooters which is not they take fam. Stop playing stupid. It's a testament to they skill that they even able to transition and still be good players

Bron ball is him never being able to play wit a dominate post big cause he needs the floor open all game cause he has no mid range game.

The only players this applies to are Bosh and Love, y'all can't say this for Wade or Kyrie because Bron+Wade was a 1A+1B deal till injuries started fukking with Wade again and Kyrie grew next to LeBron. I'm really not understanding how yall are logically believing third options are supposed to be getting equal looks as #1 and 2. Golden State is an anomaly and their #1 and #2 options actually less shots while Klay remained the same so sacrifice is coming either way.

There are no other players y'all can apply the "demote to corner shooters" to so go ahead and tell me about Chalmers' ceiling before Bron sabotaged his All-Star seasons

 

[Shadow King]

"Bron Ball" is the reason we didn't see Kobe vs Bron in 09 Finals.

Give up multiple 20 pt leads to a D Howard led team brehs.

Doubling robotic Dwight and letting Orlando's shooters rain on them is why Cleveland lost not offense.

 

[Shadow King]

Celtics, Spurs and Lakers come to mind, who had third options with numbers comparable or better than Bosh and Love.

Bosh averaged 17.3 in his LeBron era with a high of 18.7; Love 17.0 so far with a high of 19.0
Spurs
98-99: Duncan-21.7/Robinson-15.8/Elliot-11.2
02-03: Duncan-23.3/Parker-15.5/Jackson-11.8
04-05: Duncan-20.3/Parker-16.6/Ginobili-16.0
06-07: Duncan-20.0/Parker-18.6/Ginobili-16.5
13-14: Parker-16.7/Duncan-15.1/Leonard-12.8

Lakers
99-00: Shaq-29.7/Kobe-22.5/Rice-15.9
00-01: Shaq-28.7/Kobe-28.5/Fisher-11.5
01-02: Shaq-27.2/Kobe-25.2/Fisher-11.2
08-09: Kobe-26.8/Gasol-18.9/Bynum-14.3
09-10: Kobe-27.0/Gasol-18.3/Bynum-15.0

Celtics
07-08: Pierce-19.6/Garnett-18.8/Allen-17.4

So out of 11 teams, 4 have had their 3rd options put up similar numbers, 1 rounded up (00 Lakers) and another which saw both the #1 and #2 sacrifice 4-5 FGA each to be equal to their #3 (Celtics).

While it has been done, it's not that common particularly after the fastbreak 80s era. Let the Coli tell it your top 3 players should all have a green light and average 22+, at least when talking about LeBron.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

Bosh averaged 17.3 in his LeBron era with a high of 18.7; Love 17.0 so far with a high of 19.0
Spurs
98-99: Duncan-21.7/Robinson-15.8/Elliot-11.2
02-03: Duncan-23.3/Parker-15.5/Jackson-11.8
04-05: Duncan-20.3/Parker-16.6/Ginobili-16.0
06-07: Duncan-20.0/Parker-18.6/Ginobili-16.5
13-14: Parker-16.7/Duncan-15.1/Leonard-12.8

Lakers
99-00: Shaq-29.7/Kobe-22.5/Rice-15.9
00-01: Shaq-28.7/Kobe-28.5/Fisher-11.5
01-02: Shaq-27.2/Kobe-25.2/Fisher-11.2
08-09: Kobe-26.8/Gasol-18.9/Bynum-14.3
09-10: Kobe-27.0/Gasol-18.3/Bynum-15.0

Celtics
07-08: Pierce-19.6/Garnett-18.8/Allen-17.4

So out of 11 teams, 4 have had their 3rd options put up similar numbers, 1 rounded up (00 Lakers) and another which saw both the #1 and #2 sacrifice 4-5 FGA each to be equal to their #3 (Celtics).

While it has been done, it's not that common particularly after the fastbreak 80s era. Let the Coli tell it your top 3 players should all have a green light and average 22+, at least when talking about LeBron.

I forgot about Bynum, I was thinking about Candyman who must of been averaging 14/15 and 10.

 

[Kami]

Bron ball is a term that comes from the envy of winning

 

[Shadow King]

I forgot about Bynum, I was thinking about Candyman who must of been averaging 14/15 and 10.

Candyman and he was till the Gasol/chip era. For the 2 titles it was 11 and 9.

Dominant ass frontcourt

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

Candyman and he was till the Gasol/chip era. For the 2 titles it was 11 and 9.

Dominant ass frontcourt

Was those the playoff numbers or Final numbers. I'm sure he was like 14/10 for the playoffs in one of those titles

 

[boskey]

Bron ball is him never being able to play wit a dominate post big cause he needs the floor open all game cause he has no mid range game.

This is true . Bron even took it a step further and told David Stern to ban ALL dominant post bigs from the NBA just to hide his weakness. Notice how there haven't been many since he entered the league

This is bigger than Nino Brown...

 

[Shadow King]

Was those the playoff numbers or Final numbers. I'm sure he was like 14/10 for the playoffs in one of those titles

Honestly that whole list was regular season numbers. But Odom did average 14 and 10 in the playoffs for their first Finals run when Boston beat them.

 

[Bilz]

Kevin Love and Chris Bosh were both 26 and 10 guys getting their own shots, they became little more than 3 point shooters playing with Lebron

Realistically what do you see them as on a contending team? 26/10 1st options?

 

[JackRoss]

Doubling robotic Dwight and letting Orlando's shooters rain on them is why Cleveland lost not offense.

Dudes comment is just another example of people looking at the big names and not ever watching the games.. I think he's just trying to fit in with the LeBron hate

 

[10bandz]

I forgot about Bynum, I was thinking about Candyman who must of been averaging 14/15 and 10.

Candyman played all the relevant minutes when it mattered so you should be thinking about him instead of Bynum

anyone who calls Bynum the "3rd option" on the title teams don't know shyt

 

[Dwight Howard]

kevin love + lebron and bosh + lebron are great together as duos. being 3rd option is where they struggled.Go look at the numbers.


The 2015-2016 stats, the championship season

WITH and WITHOUT LeBron James              
           
          WITH     min    per 48  |  WITHOUT    min   per 48  |  DIFFERENCE
Frye     + 3.9     8.2    + 22.8  |  - 2.1    10.7    - 9.4   |  +32.2
Delly    + 5.6    16.8    + 16.0  |  - 0.1     9.1    - 0.5   |  +16.5
Shumpert + 3.4    12.5    + 13.1  |  + 0.3    12.8    + 1.1   |  +11.9
Thompson + 5.6    20.7    + 13.0  |  - 0.9     8.8    - 4.9   |  +17.9
Love     + 6.7    27.4    + 11.7  |  - 0.8     6.2    - 6.2   |  +17.9
Smith    + 5.3    26.9    + 9.5   |  - 1.0     6.3    - 7.6   |  +17.1
Irving   + 4.2    23.6    + 8.5   |    0.0    10.0      0.0   |  + 8.5
Jefferso + 1.0     7.3    + 6.6   |  - 1.3    12.7    - 4.9   |  +11.5
Williams + 1.9    15.8    + 5.8   |  - 2.7     6.3    -20.6   |  +26.3

These are outrageous numbers. The kind of difference LeBron makes is huge. Without LeBron on court, each player gets net losses across the board. With him, massive positives. The difference is staggering.

As a comparison, here are the same with-without +/- stats for the other members of the "Big 3". Or perhaps "massive 1 and biggish 2"?

Irving:

WITH and WITHOUT Irving
               
           WITH                      WITHOUT
          "+/-"    min    per 48     "+/-"    min     per 48        DIFFERENCE
James    + 4.2    23.6    + 8.5   |  + 5.4    20.4    + 12.7    |    - 4.2
Smith    + 2.3    22.2    + 5.0   |  + 2.5    15.8     + 7.6    |    - 2.6
Thompson + 4.4    27.7    + 7.6   |  + 3.9    31.5     + 5.9    |    + 1.7
Love     + 2.8    23.1    + 5.8   |  + 3.9    17.3     +10.8    |    - 5.0
Shumpert + 1.1    13.0    + 4.1   |  + 2.4    12.8     + 9.0    |    - 4.9
Delly    + 1.4     8.8    + 7.6   |  + 4.3    19.8     +10.4    |    - 2.8
Frye     + 0.7     9.6    + 3.5   |  + 0.6     9.2     + 3.1    |    + 0.4
Jeffers  + 0.6     8.0    + 3.6   |  - 0.9    13.3     - 3.2    |    + 6.8
Willia   - 1.0     3.5    -13.7   |  - 1.0    17.6     - 2.7    |    -11.0

This doesn't paint Irving's impact on his teammates in a particularly positive light. He is getting big credit for stepping up in the Finals, but his impact based on regular season +/- is not as impressive, especially for a "superstar". Statistically, the other two of the Big 3 actually preferred when they are playing without Irving. And this applies to several others too. Dissing Irving might be a dangerous thing to do around here, so I will just say: basketball is a team game.

And Love:

WITH and WITHOUT Love
             
           WITH                    | WITHOUT                    |
           +/-    min     per 48   | "+/-"    min    per 48     |  DIFFERENCE
James     + 6.7    27.4    + 11.7  |  + 1.8     9.7    + 8.9    |    +  2.8
Irving    + 2.8    23.1    +  5.8  |  + 1.4    10.5    + 6.4    |    -  0.6
Smith     + 3.3    23.8    +  6.7  |  + 0.9     8.4    + 5.1    |    +  1.5
Thompson  + 4.0    16.6    + 11.6  |  + 0.7    12.4    + 2.7    |    +  8.9
Shumpert  + 2.8    11.0    + 12.2  |  + 0.8    14.4    + 2.7    |    +  9.6
Delly     + 4.5    14.1    + 15.3  |  + 0.8    11.4    + 3.4    |    + 12.0
Frye      - 1.0     5.0    -  9.6  |  + 1.7    15.5    + 5.3    |    - 14.9
Jefferson + 0.1     7.5    +  0.6  |  - 0.7    11.5    - 2.9    |    +  3.6
Williams  + 1.4    14.7    +  4.6  |  - 2.4     7.1    -16.2    |    + 20.8

To honour the departing Delly, here is how the Cavs players played with and without him. Somehow Delly seems to add more value that the lesser 2 of the Big 3.

Delly:

WITH and WITHOUT Delly                      

          WITH                   |  WITHOUT                   |
         "+/-"    min    per 48  |  "+/-"    min    per 48    |    DIFFERENCE
James     +5.6    16.8    +16.0  |   +3.0    20.4    +7.1     |    +8.9
Irving    +1.4     8.8     +7.6  |   +2.8    24.7    +5.4     |    +2.2
Smith     +3.2    12.6    +12.2  |   +1.2    19.4    +3.0     |    +9.2
Thompson  +3.0    15.2     +9.5  |   +1.6    13.8    +5.6     |    +3.9
Love      +4.5    14.1    +15.3  |   +1.4    18.5    +3.6     |   +11.7
Shumpert  +2.3    13.9     +7.9  |   +1.4    11.7    +5.7     |    +2.2
Frye      +0.3    10.7     +1.3  |   +1.0     7.7    +6.2     |    -4.9
Jeffers   +0.9    10.6     +4.1  |   -1.5     8.4    -8.6     |   +12.6
Williams  +1.8     7.3    +11.8  |   -2.4    14.7    -7.8     |   +19.7

Bosh went from 24/10 to 18/8 with the heat. quite a drop off, but thats just numbers. this is what bosh had to say about the adjustment when asked how Love would fit in Cleveland with bron


“It’s going to be very difficult for him. Even if I was in his corner and I was able to tell him what to expect and what to do, it still doesn’t make any difference. You still have to go through things, you still have to figure out things on your own. It’s extremely difficult and extremely frustrating. He’s going to have to deal with that.”