Cato: The Libertarian Alternative

[Dorian Breh]

Yup, and that's very much how the libertarian world works. I'll read the whole essay.

It's even worse when looking at the bigger picture, because the need to make those profits is driven by loans and interest:



The whole chapter (hell, the whole book) is an incredible read.

Sacred Economics: Chapter 6, "The Economics of Usury" - Sacred Economics | Charles Eisenstein

Read that excerpt when you posted it in the landlord thread, brilliant read

 

[DEAD7]

Libertarianism is just an ideology designed to rationalize economic and social inequality. I'm good...

False.

 

[Dorian Breh]

Can someone explain property rights under libertarianism? In the absence of government, who establishes who owns what? Can you just Deeobo someone else's shyt with a gun?

 

[DEAD7]

Can someone explain property rights under libertarianism? In the absence of government, who establishes who owns what? Can you just Deeobo someone else's shyt with a gun?

You described anarchy...
... and the answer depends on how you define “anarchists”. I believe anarchism is inherently a left-wing philosophy... an anti-statist branch of the socialist movement and yes they all oppose private property.


...something tells me you meant anarcho-capitalist when you said libertarian tho
Anarcho-capitalism - Wikipedia

...the answers are all there.

 

[Dorian Breh]

You described anarchy...
... and the answer depends on how you define “anarchists”. I believe anarchism is inherently a left-wing philosophy... an anti-statist branch of the socialist movement and yes they all oppose private property.


...something tells me you meant anarchist-capitalist when you said libertarian tho
Anarcho-capitalism - Wikipedia

...the answers are all there.

I think you're right, I more closely meant Anarcho-capitalism. But what is the libertarian view of property ownership? And again, maybe I'm confusing lib with ancap, but what is the entity that issues currency under libertarianism? What's to stop someone from simply telling you your money means shyt because they're not beholden to the entity that issued it?

Sorry, I've seen various answers to this so I'm confused

 

[DEAD7]

Libertarianism(like liberalism) is a broad ideology, so answers will vary.

...most are in favor of small and/or limited government.
Ancaps are in favor of property rights enforced by private agencies.

 

[Domingo Halliburton]

This article is bizarre to me in the way they try to paint themselves as the moderate, sane centrists in the middle of these idealogies on the left and right.

 

[DEAD7]

This article is bizarre to me in the way they try to paint themselves as the moderate, sane centrists in the middle of these idealogies on the left and right.

fiscally conservative and socially liberal can legitimately be considered in the middle...

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You described anarchy...
... and the answer depends on how you define “anarchists”. I believe anarchism is inherently a left-wing philosophy... an anti-statist branch of the socialist movement and yes they all oppose private property.


...something tells me you meant anarcho-capitalist when you said libertarian tho
Anarcho-capitalism - Wikipedia

...the answers are all there.

Only one branch of anarchists opposes all private property. Considering that many conservatives define liberals as inherently statist (I mean, didn't you basically call statists the opposite of libertarians in this very conversation?), it seems ridiculous to also define the most anti-statist extreme as being inherently liberal.

There are both liberal anarchists and conservative anarchists, just like there are liberal dictators and conservative dictators. It's not a position that fits on the traditional 2D spectrum.

 

[wtfyomom]

Honesty the thread replies don't make much sense, but that was expected I guess.

Firstly I lean towards libertarianism, but I admit that is somewhat of a difficult thing during a pandemic and seeing how the people react socially during this catastrophe.
With that said though, you can bring up loads of valid arguments about the evils of libertariasm/capitalism/free market and in response I can reply back with valid arguments about the evils of democratic socialism and/or centrism.

To me I try to focus on the problems more than what I as I human being tend to lean towards more.
And because of that my opinion is that if we lived in 100% free market libertarian country vs if we lived in a democratic soliacist country or whatever your preference is, if you wonder which one is better.
I would say that if you remove corruption all of the above would be better than things are now.
Therefore rather than leaning one way or the other way or in the middle I think we should all be more focused on removing corruption so any of the aboves could properly flourish.

There are many many many evils of socialism, and probably socialism have shed more blood than capitalism. I'm talking mass bloodshed levels.
The left always argues against libertarians, saying you don't want socialism, well you want the United States Army right? That's socialism.

Ya it is, and how much global bloodshed has that spilled since several decades accross multiple presidential terms from both parties?

What about the bailouts, the party that you all love also supports bailing out the elites and not never the people. Bailing out the elites and at that specific companies is at the heights of evil.
And of course, many many many more examples, I can do this all day, and likely so could you.

Another issue is alot of you give knee-jerk responses.
So when you give examples of evils of capitalism or libertarianism it could usually be argued that sorry, no that example you gave is an example of socialism not capitalism or libertarism.
But you perceive it as so because you so simplistically equate capitalism with money.
And regardless if you equate it with money or not that will never stop you from going hard and defending the next democratic candidate that is owned by wallstreet, so all too often this hatred of yours is purely theoritical and never goes into practice.

We would be much more results oriented if we focused on corruption more rather than hatred over a particular political philosophy and steer away from partisanship.

theres no way in hell socialism is the cause of more death than capitalism. its not even close foh with that propaganda , the whole world is being destroyed by capitalism

 

[Cynic]

Give this ideology a few decades and the wealth inequality will eventually lead to communist revolution.

I see you comrade @DEAD7

 

[DEAD7]

theres no way in hell socialism is the cause of more death than capitalism. its not even close foh with that propaganda , the whole world is being destroyed by capitalism

Socialism has been rejected by mankind around the globe and isnt on the table anywhere its time to stop for it.
Controlled capitalism is the wave.

 

[jj23]

Socialism has been rejected by mankind around the globe and isnt on the table anywhere its time to stop for it.
Controlled capitalism is the wave.

Nah. Billionaires that control the narrative are trying to convince people to go against their best interests.

Let's not pretend this is a global and decided issue.

 

[DEAD7]

Nah. Billionaires that control the narrative are trying to convince people to go against their best interests.

Let's not pretend this is a global and decided issue.

Oh I see... its a superior system, but no one on the planet employs it because of evil billionaires.
Alright.


You realize their are actual socialist and communist parties in power(some in absolute power) around the world that have leaned back and now practice capitalism...
Countries That Are Considered Socialist - WorldAtlas

Please no 'thats not real socialism', my point is no one is buying what socialist are selling, and its not because rich people say so.

 

[Prince.Skeletor]

theres no way in hell socialism is the cause of more death than capitalism. its not even close foh with that propaganda , the whole world is being destroyed by capitalism

I don't know how you can say that's true but I am guessing it's just an issue of semantics.

How many innocent civilian deaths globally did the U.S. foreign policy cause? Obviously the U.S. military is not part of the private sector right? So that is socialism right led by the commander and chief. Potus after potus regardless of which party they with that foreign policy don't change since pres carter.
So all these global civilian deaths are bipartisan socialist initiatives.

Also you mention capitalism, by that I am guessing you mean the greed for money that major corporations go after. But ask yourself, how do they do that? with loopholes right?
Look at cabinet seats, who are the ones chosen for those seats? They are usually execs from mega corps are they not?
Isn't someone from goldman sachs always have a seat in every president's administration? So much that they call it the Goldamn Seat.
Again both bipartisan and socialism.

And then they hire a bunch of lawyers to write a 1500 page bill that lawmakers have 24 hours or less to vote on, with massive amounts of lawyer mumbo jumbo to include loopholes for these companies that you are thinking are destroying the world through 'capitalism'.

Look at the whole reddit/gamespot shyt going on??
If the free market was real they would let that happen, but now only those hedge funds are allowed to trade those stocks, is that capitalism too?

Look at cabinet seats and heads of regulatory bodies, look who sits in those seats.
Its all execs from oil companies, to weapons manufacturers, to Monsanto, to financial companies, to bankers, and to other former execs from massive mega corporations.

That's not capitalism when it's government that creates monopolies.

The only monopolies that should exist is oil, because oil is not found everywhere.
Other than that there should be no monopolies, but you should research why they exist.

Since Bush to Obama to Trump and same will happen with Biden, all these presidents never bail out the people, they only bail out large corporations.
Probably the same corporations that you think are evil capitalistic companies, but who bailing them out? It's the president, is that capitalism too?
No that's socialism, it's redistributing YOUR money to already super rich .1%ers.