CNN immediately fires three employees who returned to work unvaccinated

[Professor Emeritus]

nikka I'm talking about the poll I linked in that thread not what OP posted. Thread is mysteriously gone now so no point in going any further

There WAS no scientific poll ever linked in that thread. There was a tweet from a right-winger who pushes misinformation, and there was the random-ass coli poll. That's it.

and no you did not link that in the thread this is the first in seeing it. Either way it doesn't make the tweet wrong even if he is including kids as that would as you say bring the % down.

A. You are lying when you claim I didn't post that link. I posted the exact link in there, that's why I was able to bring it up again so quickly.

B. That link already includes kids, the %'s are 30-50% WITH kids included. So you can't use that excuse. The tweet was wrong, full-stop.


Why do you so deeply trust random white people on social media anyway? Why are you so committed to hoping and insisting he was right even though there's been zero receipts showing he was write and quite clear ones showing he was wrong?

 

[supertrekker]

They have a zero tolerance policy in place and those employees thumbed their noses at it.

fukk them, CNN should have pressed charges

Press charges for showing up to work and doing your job

 

[supertrekker]

Emotional Ass posting.

they’re free to work elsewhere

it's still wrongful dismissal

 

[Professor Emeritus]

how they gonna make a vaccine that isn't FDA Approved yet mandatory. Extreme example, is it mandatory to take herbal supplements because a doc developed them and they claim to boost the immune system??

FDA approval for the vaccine looks likely to come by September. I'm 100% certain that you're not going to adjust at all when that happens. So making the argument "But it's not FDA approved!" is disingenuous as fukk. None of y'all give a shyt about FDA approval or will change your tune when it comes.


And in terms of mandating shyt, they've been mandating vaccines for children in schools and for young adults in university and for all sorts of jobs, even entry into many countries, for just about your entire life. Vaccines ain't just about making shyt good for you, it's about public health. No one is forcing you to take the vaccine, but they will say that you can't put your coworkers' lives at risk if you refuse to take it. Just like you ain't banned from smoking but you can't smoke in most public places, you ain't banned from drinking but you can't drink and drive. If you want to avoid the vaccine, then avoid the vaccine, but don't expect to be allowed into every single space where you might put other people's lives at risk.

 

[supertrekker]

Employees who refuse to get COVID-19 vaccine may not qualify for unemployment

VERIFY: Yes, if you are fired for not getting a required vaccine, you can be denied unemployment benefits


It's not that "not getting the vaccine" disqualifies you from unemployment, it's that in most of America you can be denied unemployment if you were fired for breaking company policy, no matter what the policy is.

So did all these companies adopt a vaccination policy cause I've never heard of this before

 

[Atlrocafella]

FDA approval for the vaccine looks likely to come by September. I'm 100% certain that you're not going to adjust at all when that happens. So making the argument "But it's not FDA approved!" is disingenuous as fukk. None of y'all give a shyt about FDA approval or will change your tune when it comes.


And in terms of mandating shyt, they've been mandating vaccines for children in schools and for young adults in university and for all sorts of jobs, even entry into many countries, for just about your entire life. Vaccines ain't just about making shyt good for you, it's about public health. No one is forcing you to take the vaccine, but they will say that you can't put your coworkers' lives at risk if you refuse to take it. Just like you ain't banned from smoking but you can't smoke in most public places, you ain't banned from drinking but you can't drink and drive. If you want to avoid the vaccine, then avoid the vaccine, but don't expect to be allowed into every single space where you might put other people's lives at risk.

Facts. All this “I’m waiting for the FDA approval” is just a bullshyt ass excuse. It’s a formality at this point. Niccas out here taking and doing a lot of non FDA approved shyt with no issues

 

[Professor Emeritus]

So did all these companies adopt a vaccination policy cause I've never heard of this before

Yes, many companies adopted a vaccination policy at some point this year.

it's still wrongful dismissal

This is false, it is completely legal for a state to mandate vaccines, for people of a certain profession to mandate vaccines, or for a private company to mandate vaccines. For example, many schools (public and private) have mandates for certain vaccines, as do health care workers or hospital employees in some places, as do many people who work with animals or in certain travel-based professions.

States have over a century of legal precedent for mandating vaccines, according to Koh, who currently serves as a professor of the practice of public health Leadership at the Harvard T. H. Chan School of Public Health.

The courts have not determined if the federal government can issue a vaccine mandate, however, the Supreme Court's decision in the 1905 case Jacobson v. Massachusetts gave state governments the power to issue such a mandate.

The 7-2 decision ruled that Massachusetts's smallpox vaccine mandate was constitutional stating, "it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine in the first instance whether vaccination is or is not the best mode for the prevention of smallpox and the protection of the public health."

All states and the District of Columbia have mandated vaccines for ailments such as measles, rubella and polio, for school-age children, although requirements differ by state. There are also a range of exceptions, most commonly medical and religious reasons.

The situation is largely different for adults, for whom vaccines are generally not required for employment or in other forums. However, in certain states, such as New York, there is a requirement for health care workers, for instance.

More businesses are mandating COVID-19 vaccines. Is that legal?

Both the Department of Justice and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) have ruled that businesses may lawfully require workers to get a COVID-19 vaccine as a condition of coming to the workplace. However, businesses must grant legitimate medical or religious exemptions. The only major court ruling to date upheld Houston Methodist Hospital’s COVID-19 vaccine mandate. The private sector has wide discretion in setting conditions for workers and customers, and businesses have a legal and ethical duty to keep the workplace safe.

In most respects, Institutes of Higher Education are in a similar position to businesses. IHEs have long required vaccinations of students—for human papillomavirus, meningococcus and influenza, for example. A federal court has already ruled that Indiana University’s COVID-19 mandate is a reasonable, science-based measure to ensure student health and safety. And the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit just affirmed that Indiana University’s mandate was lawful. IHEs act in loco parentis and thus have a duty to care for the safety and security of students on campus. While most IHE COVID-19 mandates apply to students, many also apply to faculty and staff.

Vaccine Mandates Are Lawful, Effective and Based on Rock-Solid Science

 

[philmonroe]

come on over to L2H Brother. we’re dealing with the same ignorance over there but at least we can speak freely like men.

What site is that fam?

 

[CoryMack]

What site is that fam?

Live2Hustle Forums

Go to Debaters Haters and Players section that’s where the most traffic is. It ain’t as many of us as it used to be but we only have two rules - no posting of fakkitry or underage children. Let me know if you sign up and I’ll holla at the mods for you.

 

[Based Lord Zedd]

And in terms of mandating shyt, they've been mandating vaccines for children in schools and for young adults in university and for all sorts of jobs, even entry into many countries, for just about your entire life. Vaccines ain't just about making shyt good for you, it's about public health. No one is forcing you to take the vaccine, but they will say that you can't put your coworkers' lives at risk if you refuse to take it. Just like you ain't banned from smoking but you can't smoke in most public places, you ain't banned from drinking but you can't drink and drive. If you want to avoid the vaccine, then avoid the vaccine, but don't expect to be allowed into every single space where you might put other people's lives at risk.

I don't think these are quite the same. As far as I know, vaccines for public schools, or to come into the country are mandated by law. That is not the same as a private employer doing it.
For me it's one thing when the public officials we vote for are mandating something, it's another thing when private employers start to try to step in and do it.

I'm not arguing whether or not it's legal for private companies to do it, just about who should have the authority to mandate it.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I don't think these are quite the same. As far as I know, vaccines for public schools, or to come into the country are mandated by law. That is not the same as a private employer doing it.

Private companies have been mandating shyt for the longest. I went to a private university and I had to get several additional vaccines I didn't have before I went to college. Plenty of private employers have mandated their employees get flu vaccines every year - for example, private hospitals or nursing homes who serve the elderly.

OSHA takes the position that employers can require employees to take influenza vaccines but emphasizes that employees “need to be properly informed of the benefits of vaccinations.” OSHA also explains that:

an employee who refuses vaccination because of a reasonable belief that he or she has a medical condition that creates a real danger of serious illness or death (such as a serious reaction to the vaccine) may be protected under Section 11(c) of the Occupational Safety and Health Act pertaining to whistleblower rights.​

Employers are advised to develop consistent written communication to employees about the efficacy of a flu vaccine, provide details about how a mandatory program would be administered, and perform supervisor training on how to address objections (covered in more detail below). Also, your policy should clearly describe the process for requesting an exemption or accommodation for employees who object to the vaccine.

Mandate to Vaccinate? Employers and Required Flu Shots

 

[Captain Crunch]

You seriously can’t be asking this question in August of 2021. Just say you don’t want/trust the vaccine regardless of the facts.

1. If the office is full of vaxed workers, then theres little to no chance those unvaxxed will cause vaxed folks to die.

2. We know that ppl w/ the shots can get covid, if the unvaxxed don't have covid and take proper precautions (mask up, social distance, good hygiene, etc) then that's as good as taking the vaccines.

3. If the main thing is to protect employees from covid, wouldn't it make more sense to subject ppl to weekly testing and daily temp checks?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

1. If the office is full of vaxed workers, then theres little to no chance those unvaxxed will cause vaxed folks to die.

2. We know that ppl w/ the shots can get covid, if the unvaxxed don't have covid and take proper precautions (mask up, social distance, good hygiene, etc) then that's as good as taking the vaccines.

3. If the main thing is to protect employees from covid, wouldn't it make more sense to subject ppl to weekly testing and daily temp checks?

1. Do you think a news organization only works with coworkers and doesn't interact with the public?

2. It is extremely unlikely that good social distancing protocol is as good as taking the vaccine, and it's certainly not as good as vaccinating AND maintaining good protocol. On top of that, you're acknowledging that your #1 answer was bullshyt, because you well know that an unvaccinated person bringing Covid into the workplace can spread it to vaccinated people, some of whom might not get sick themselves but could spread to unvaccinated people they interact with.

3. It's obvious that "weekly testing" is a very poor stopgap, you could get the virus on saturday, test on monday and still not test positive yet, start spreading shyt on tuesday, and be spreading that all week before you finally get tested again the next monday.

 

[Based Lord Zedd]

Private companies have been mandating shyt for the longest. I went to a private university and I had to get several additional vaccines I didn't have before I went to college. Plenty of private employers have mandated their employees get flu vaccines every year - for example, private hospitals or nursing homes who serve the elderly.



Mandate to Vaccinate? Employers and Required Flu Shots

I think the key difference here is time. I'm not an expert on the flu vaccine but quick googling says it's been around for like 100 years and has been mandated for, or at least recommended for healthcare workers longer than I've been alive. And I agree with you that FDA approval won't change some people's opinion but it's been approved for a long time now right?

I could be wrong there, but it's not really the same as the COVID shot which was just released. Especially not when its recency is one of the significant factors contributing to people not wanting it. I think as time passes it'll be more "acceptable" to mandate this shot, but seems really soon for this.

EDIT: I'd also point out that these are specialized cases, whereas I expect the COVID requirements to be more widespread. COVID is much more dangerous than the flu of course, but is there a comparable situation where the majority or a significant % of employers mandate a vaccine?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Excuse my ignorance, if my statement comes across that way, but with talk of new variants/mutations, how did the original variant not mutate here without the vaccine and a good amount of people not wearing masks? I’ve tried looking up info on it but really can’t find anything…

That's not ignorant, that's a legit question. And in fact at least two variants did develop in the USA, just by random chance they've turned out to not be the most serious ones.

Basically, a lot of random shyt has to come together for a variant to emerge. First the virus has to mutate, then that mutation has to be infectious enough to spread, then the mutation has to get lucky and actually spread (if the original person the virus mutates in does a great job of masking and social distancing, the mutation might just die in him).

Since so much of that shyt is completely random, you never know where the variants will emerge. The MORE people who get sick and the MORE the virus replicates inside of them, the more likely a mutation is to emerge, but there are no guarantees that it will emerge here or there. Places where people stay sick a long time without treatment or without dying, or places where sick people aren't well protected when they are sick in the hospital, are especially likely to have variants emerge because the virus keeps replicating and replicating in the body and fighting as it interacts with the body's defenses and/or the doctors' treatments.

It's possible that one reason we haven't seen even more variants emerge in the USA is because our hospitalized patients are highly protected from spreading it to others.


That being said, at least 2 out of 11 variants were observed first in America:

Alpha: UK
Beta: South Africa
Gamma: Brazil
Delta: India
Epsilon: USA
Zeta: Brazil
Eta: UK or Nigeria
Theta: Philippines
Iota: USA
Kappa: India
Lambda: Peru


Notice that almost everywhere a variant has emerged has been a place where the pandemic was raging most - including 2 in India, 2 in UK, 2 in USA, and 2 in Brazil, who happen to be the four worst countries in the world for the pandemic. And the UK/USA variants all emerged in 2020, which virtually no one was vaccinated.