Could Bootcamp have even been bigger than The Wu ?

[WIA20XX]

Great thread.

Thanks. I have a whole lot of hip hop "what if" scenarios, but I don't really have a feel for what y'all want to talk about.

 

[The War Report]

Nope, because BCC never had someone like the RZA steering the ship.

 

[bobbiewishbone]

Wu was definitely more tapped in with their female audience. No one in BCC would make anything close to this.

 

[DarkmanX]

Nah.

And early on, I was a huge fan of the camp. But the issue was, after Dah Shinin', they started having internal issues that affected everything that came after. Once the production started falling off, they were done. Beatminerz were the ingredient for them, like RZA was for Wu.

But they started feeling like they didn't need Dee and Walt, and wanted to run their own careers and A&R their own albums. Once that started, the whole movement died.

Nocturnal was still hitting tho IMO.

Not sure if Beatminerz produced anything on dat tho

 

[DaHNIC82]

They didn't have star power to match Meth or ODB

Didn't have MCs with the charisma of Rae or Ghost

RZA is better and more versatile than Beatminerz

Wu is much more unique overall

I say all this as a fan of everything BCC did from 93-96, but Wu has several projects that are better than the best work BCC did.

Sean Price definitely had it

Rock as well

But Tupac dying fukked them up. The One Nation album would have definitely elevated them to another level.

Then the nikkas they had dissed (Bad Boy) leveled all the way up and they dropped a disappointing debut. It was over from there

 

[DaHNIC82]

Not really - that was the little nikkas catchin a bad one. Tek was hooked in with BIG and I doubt that beef was ever going to go too far.

When Enta da Stage dropped, in real time the discussion was maybe that was better than Enter the Wu-Tang 36 Chambers. At the very least the albums were different but equal to most of the people I knew. Da Shinin dropped before OB4CL and Liquid Swords, and Smif n Wessun had undeniable NYC hood anthems (Sound Bwoy Burreill is a record to this day I'll put up against any NYC record as defining the mood and feel of the city back then). But then the Wu dropped classic after bonafide classic on everyone's heads and there was no debate anymore. I think all the reasons were laid out in the thread, though there are some things I personally disagree with.

I thought the second Wu album was disappointing, but their stanbase had grown to incorporate so many non-nikkas that their momentum was unstoppable. Add in their mythological status with that goofy TV show, and you have people who weren't there in real time who believe all their albums are sacrosanct. But it wasn't Wu's double that cemented their rep, it was the raw solo albums. And yeah, the production was a big part of the distinction between Wu and BCC as the years went on. But I think that's unfair to Beatminerz, because their brief run was incredible. And you can't say the BCC lacked the talent, because they had so many elements: Sean P was the credible cool street dude who could rap his ass off; Rock had the amazing voice; Smif & Wessun had the back and forth chemistry; Starang had the it factor; Buck was already a semi-star. But longevity takes timing and luck in addition to talent, and everything just broke the wrong way for them. @Awesome Wells laid out the Smif & Wessun situation. Rock had the voice but seemed directionless for a while and was going through weird label shyt. Buck was very much of his moment and his sound was so tied to Beatminerz he sounded weird going forward. Sean Price was always nice but it took BCC falling apart for him to find that extra something that made him the super ill underground Lord. The stars just didn't align for the crew as a whole.

But just to be clear, they were never going to be what the Wu became because how the fukk can you make sense of the Wu? All those nikkas from Staten Island, which most New Yorkers consider some other off brand city entirely, with an all time producer, dope rhymers who almost all evolved into elite rhymers, and two crossover super hero stars (ODB and Meth). BCC had no chance to be that. My homie was talking to me last year about the different rappers who briefly had the aura of "coolest nikka in New York" from Rakim to Kane to Puba to Q-Tip to Jay-Z... The Wu had two of those in one group in Meth and Ghost. And then they had a once-in-a-lifetime spectacle of a supernova in ODB, who I always thought has a similar spirit to Pac. Wu Tang is incomprehensible, a one-of-one.

Musical direction was the main problem for their debut. Steele told me Buckshot wanted to use more guitars and melodies because he was around Pac and wanted to connect with different audiences.

Heltah skeletah wanted to keep the same formula. Cook up some hard shyt from the beatminerz and then knock it out.

Steele said Sean Price wanted to quit when he seen a dude on a guitar in the studio

 

[summwunn]

. . .. once Ecstasy was no longer considered whiteboy food in the second-half of the 90s . . .. thats when the masculine energy got severely diluted . . .. and the music reflected reality . . . same way it always has . . .. . . that was the prolouge to when the European techno and drum-and-bass sounds and "rhythms" started gettin incorporated . .. . . Neptunes.. . Timbaland . . .. . Lil Jon . .. . . . .