Democratic Party Rebuild

[wire28]

In theory, Democratic leadership—being largely moderate—would be ideologically closer to MAGA Republicans than self-identified leftists are. So if what you're suggesting is true, as troubling as it would be, it wouldn’t necessarily be surprising.

However, you all describe yourselves as leftists. A MAGA-driven project should be fundamentally opposed to your stated ideology. It should be politically and morally unacceptable to you, given that it represents the opposite end of the spectrum.

So if some leftists appear indifferent to MAGA gaining power simply because they did not get their preferred outcome, that raises a serious question: are they genuinely committed to leftist principles, or are they embracing a form of accelerationism instead?

He actually is on record stating he is an accelerationist however.

 

[wire28]

Sure, you could make that argument.

But I’m not being condescending when I say I think you’re smart enough to recognize how weak it is to claim that not voting—or voting third party—when MAGA is on the ballot is less enabling of MAGA than voting for the candidate or party with the strongest chance of defeating them.

There would be a lot of juelzing (and for any intelligent person, a degree of shamelessness) to make that argument with a straight face.

I see you’re currently in the arc of your story where you think they aren’t shameless. I was there a few years ago.

 

[Outlaw]

They embrace accelerationism. They think that eventually the American public will revolt against the government and will eventually topple that government and out of the ashes will rise a progressive government that they can be proud of.

What they don't realize is for something like that to happen would cause mass deaths on the scale of something they've never seen in their privileged little lives. And out of that chaos will likely rise a fascist dictator. They're idealist who don't live in the real world. I've abandoned them politically.

They want a Maoist, Castro or Bolshevik revolution, little do they realize that once the populace is pushed to that point, and if they’re successful a progressive democracy isn’t born out of those ashes, a state controlled, totalitarian governance is born out of that, which by all measures is worse than the democratic governance we lived in pre Trump.

These idiots don’t realize that liberal democracy is the best form of governance that humanity is capable of at this point in time.

Communism is a pipe dream and can’t survive a market place of competing ideologies that’s why all of these communist countries become a single party state with mass death for dissenters.

If that’s the future you want us to accelerate to then fukk you and fukk privileged grifters like Hasan Piker who push their sheep into that direction for dollars

 

[mastermind]

But I’m not being condescending when I say I think you’re smart enough to recognize how weak it is to claim that not voting—or voting third party—when MAGA is on the ballot is less enabling of MAGA than voting for the candidate or party with the strongest chance of defeating them.

I can't comment on not voting, but claiming a vote for an alternative party's candidate is a vote for MAGA is extremely condescending and accepting the only other option is status quo, which we know will lead to an even more right-wing candidate in the future.

I say this because this is whats continued to happen since Reagan won in 1980. Both parties have shifted to the right since then.

I don't think most Democratic voters want that extreme right-wing ideology in power, but I do believe the Democratic leadership would rather face an extreme right-wing ideology than cede power to the people to the left.

Like Hasan said in that video, why wasn't the 2024 autopsy report released by the DNC? Why is there thish rush to annoint Gavin Newsom as the party's choice before anyone declares for POTUS? Why does Gavin Newsom platform people like SHapiro and Watermelon Head Kirk before having someone to the left of him?

MAGA is the problem, as is the Dem leadership. I actually think many of those voters who sided with Trump in 2024 know that instinctively. They know the DEmocratic Party as currently constructed is full of shyt.

And we've seen the Dems openly try to sabotage candidates that are to the left of the party's agenda. The party is clearly not welcoming left ideas, so why vote for them? You can't keep saying, "MAGA candidate" when Dems are voting with them on budget bills to increase DHS and ICE funding.

 

[Loose]

Sure, you could make that argument.

But I’m not being condescending when I say I think you’re smart enough to recognize how weak it is to claim that not voting—or voting third party—when MAGA is on the ballot is less enabling of MAGA than voting for the candidate or party with the strongest chance of defeating them.

There would be a lot of juelzing (and for any intelligent person, a degree of shamelessness) to make that argument with a straight face.

How about we start courting people in our own party like the republican party does instead of crying about people threatening the idea of voting 3rd party. Only in the democratic party this loser logic of we are guaranteed your vote exist. Democrats do more to fight for the right for 2 never trump republicans then people who supposedly are close to them ideologically. I just seen the party refuse to endorse a mayoral candidate over a sex pest, you'd think you'd have more smoke for actual politicans who go out the way to chase these people away then voters

 

[Loose]

I can't comment on not voting, but claiming a vote for an alternative party's candidate is a vote for MAGA is extremely condescending and accepting the only other option is status quo, which we know will lead to an even more right-wing candidate in the future.

I say this because this is whats continued to happen since Reagan won in 1980. Both parties have shifted to the right since then.

I don't think most Democratic voters want that extreme right-wing ideology in power, but I do believe the Democratic leadership would rather face an extreme right-wing ideology than cede power to the people to the left.

Like Hasan said in that video, why wasn't the 2024 autopsy report released by the DNC? Why is there thish rush to annoint Gavin Newsom as the party's choice before anyone declares for POTUS? Why does Gavin Newsom platform people like SHapiro and Watermelon Head Kirk before having someone to the left of him?

MAGA is the problem, as is the Dem leadership. I actually think many of those voters who sided with Trump in 2024 know that instinctively. They know the DEmocratic Party as currently constructed is full of shyt.

And we've seen the Dems openly try to sabotage candidates that are to the left of the party's agenda. The party is clearly not welcoming left ideas, so why vote for them? You can't keep saying, "MAGA candidate" when Dems are voting with them on budget bills to increase DHS and ICE funding.

Great post

 

[BaggerofTea]

Has anybody within the last 100 pages of this thread gotten involved politically at any level.

I dont think you can have a "Democratic rebuild" thread without some people on the inside to provide insight and analysis.

Bad form to complain yet not change

 

[MAKAVELI25]

How about we start courting people in our own party like the republican party does instead of crying about people threatening the idea of voting 3rd party. Only in the democratic party this loser logic of we are guaranteed your vote exist. Democrats do more to fight for the right for 2 never trump republicans then people who supposedly are close to them ideologically. I just seen the party refuse to endorse a mayoral candidate over a sex pest, you'd think you'd have more smoke for actual politicans who go out the way to chase these people away then voters

The extent that you go to to absolve voters of any responsibility is honestly stunning. I don't mean to compare you in any way to anyone on the Trump administration, but you're like the Pam Bondi to stupid and counterproductive voter decisions. These idiots could vote for Satan or Hitler and you'd still find some way to blame it on the Democrats. No matter how blatantly misguided the choice, you always seem to find a way to shift the blame entirely onto Democrats.

At some point, voters have agency. Pretending they don’t isn’t analysis — it’s avoidance.

 

[Pressure]

Democrats had a Trifecta in 2020 and two rotating villain democrats was the biggest roadblock to change, conveniently centrist ignore that.

This is what we call republican apologia.

For some reason loose can’t admit that republicans need to vote in accordance to what their constituents view as popular.

Or you need to stop referencing polling to broadly popular policy as they clearly don’t matter.

 

[wire28]

The extent that you go to to absolve voters of any responsibility is honestly stunning. I don't mean to compare you in any way to anyone on the Trump administration, but you're like the Pam Bondi to stupid and counterproductive voter decisions. These idiots could vote for Satan or Hitler and you'd still find some way to blame it on the Democrats. No matter how blatantly misguided the choice, you always seem to find a way to shift the blame entirely onto Democrats.

At some point, voters have agency. Pretending they don’t isn’t analysis — it’s avoidance.

The day in day out dedication to pushing soft republican apologia in the form of blaming literally everything on the democrats is something the republicans would pay for handsomely. So it’s a shame he’s doing it all for free on a dying messageboard.

 

[mastermind]

The extent that you go to to absolve voters of any responsibility is honestly stunning.

Blaming the voters means you agree with the Dems strategy.

You can blame the voters all you want, but they are the voters. We aren't shipping in new voters. Give them something to believe.

The truth is the Dems cultivated these voters too.

 

[MAKAVELI25]

Blaming the voters means you agree with the Dems strategy.

You can blame the voters all you want, but they are the voters. We aren't shipping in new voters. Give them something to believe.

The truth is the Dems cultivated these voters too.

No. Saying voters need to do better does not mean I’m endorsing Democratic strategy. I’ve criticized Democratic strategy plenty of times on here, and I know you know that — I’ve agreed with many of your posts and you have with some of mine.

You and Loose are two of the most informed people on this site. That’s why it’s frustrating. The moment there’s a chance to blame Democrats, all nuance disappears. It turns into a one-variable explanation for everything. To reference a very bad movie, it's like both of you go "full r*tard" (no offense to anyone) whenever you have a chance to blame Democrats.


Democrats can absolutely have serious strategic flaws. Voters can also make bad, counterproductive decisions. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Acknowledging voter responsibility is not the same thing as defending party leadership. It’s disappointing because I’ve seen both of you apply real complexity and layered thinking to other topics — foreign policy, sports, institutional analysis. But when it comes to criticizing Democrats, it suddenly becomes simplistic and binary.


.

 

[KFBF]

Has anybody within the last 100 pages of this thread gotten involved politically at any level.

Locally. City council level. It's a California city so it's all democrats and more or less boils down to pro-business Dems vs pro-people Dems. The constituency hates both sides in equal measure.

 

[mastermind]

No. Saying voters need to do better does not mean I’m endorsing Democratic strategy. I’ve criticized Democratic strategy plenty of times on here, and I know you know that — I’ve agreed with many of your posts and you have with some of mine.

I fundamentally reject that its the voters fault.

Voters on an instinctive level know the Dems are full of shyt. We just saw Biden do that for four years. And this was after Obama fumbled a generational opportunity to change this country.

Voters fell for a conman, twice. But that conman twice pointed out the Dems are frauds.

The Dem approach can't be "no, it's the voters' fault. Let's run it back," or "let's be a lite version of what the GOP are doing." They need to do something else and bring in a different approach.

The voters ARE idiots, but its your charge to convince them your position is right. This party refuses to do that.

The moment there’s a chance to blame Democrats, all nuance disappears. It turns into a one-variable explanation for everything.

this is nonsense. Loose can speak for himself, but I have given reasons why the Dems have to face their own issues before they can get better.

WHat ends up happening, consistently, is brehs falling in line with what the Dem agenda is in that "look we aren't them." That's somehow more nuanced than saying they've offered nothing to materially improve lives since the 1930s, lol.

 

[mastermind]

Has anybody within the last 100 pages of this thread gotten involved politically at any level.

yes, on a local and state wide level.

And this is largely why I am out because I've met these people and had to hit this face in the past when supporting many of them: