Democratic Party Rebuild

[Outlaw]

So basically your argument is that china wants to do the same things that elon musk and Zuckerberg actually do?

No it doesnt, they both want to see the destruction of the current american and for it to fall into a technocratic fascist regime. These arguments made a lot more sense 15 years or so ago

You’re conspiracy pilled, I don’t think Musk and Zuckerberg want to collapse America and create a “technocratic fascist regime” however even if that was true that’s besides the point, China already has their citizens in an Orwellian dystopian nightmare. I suggest you do some research on how the communist party of China treats their citizens before you put on the cape for them.

Whatever you fear America becoming, China already is

 

[Th3G3ntleman]

This is your claim, but you have provided no evidence to support either of the two claims:
1. That Musk and Zuckerberg are using their platforms to specifically push western conservatism
2.youre presenting an unverified claim that China does not have issues with the following obviously subbing out white and American for their Chinese counterparts


In fact China has issues with all of these issues.

Ok we're going to be children. I assumed we were adults and we could have an elevated conversation.

 

[Outlaw]

What does this mean? American interest? Like what? This feels like a phrase people just say. It’s a meaningless vapid phrase to me. What are the American interest that Musk and Zuckerberg are supposedly better for? The continuation of capitalism? No shyt.

I’m not going to defend musk or Zuckerberg but do some research on the dystopian living conditions of the average Chinese citizen and know that musk and Zuckerberg don’t publicly lobby for those type of policies.

You absolutely cannot trust China

 

[Pressure]

Ok we're going to be children. I assumed we were adults and we could have an elevated conversation.

You aren’t elevating anything.

We know that Elon musk and mark zuckerburg are driven by greed more than anything else. We also know that their social media platforms are used by other groups to push their own narratives.

But that’s irrelevant to the point at hand because you crafted a strawman.

The initial statement was simple, the argument that the USA is bad for wanting TikTok banned while also championing China who bans foreign companies, has a national firewall, and counters outside influence is somehow better.

It’s an absurd argument. China clearly cares about “branding its citizens” with what China believes is correct.

And it clearly uses TikTok as a way to introduce dissent in foreign countries while simultaneously blocking that same information from its own citizens.

Why argue? They think it’s bad enough to ban and silo themselves.

 

[Pressure]

Let’s further the point @Th3G3ntleman. You acknowledge that social media is harmful. Do you think the US government should place Chinese styles controls on it?

 

[Outlaw]

Let’s further the point @Th3G3ntleman. You acknowledge that social media is harmful. Do you think the US government should place Chinese styles controls on it?

Don’t expect a real debate, they’re just parroting talking points they’ve heard unironically from TikTok. If they were following any ounce of logic they wouldn’t be constructing ridiculous strawmen or asking retarded bad faith questions

I hear Hassan moonlights as a tankie for clout at times, which explains their fealty to China

 

[Th3G3ntleman]

Let’s further the point @Th3G3ntleman. You acknowledge that social media is harmful. Do you think the US government should place Chinese styles controls on it?

There is a lot of unpack in a question like that. I personally think social media in general is terrible and shouldn't exist. To engage with the question in an ideal utopia if something problematic were to exist I would like the government to restrict and to regulate it. The assumption is that in this utopia we have a government worth shyt. In reality if your asking me if I trust the government of the united states to responsibly regulate social media? The answer is no. I don't know if there is a government out there that I would.

If the goal of that question to try to connect China's censorship of their various social media outlets to my question earlier I still don't get it. I asked what is the message China is trying to push to Americans, what is the supposed outcome of that, are those outcomes any worse than the billionares to regulate our social media apps. I never argued that China's government doesn't regulates their social media apps.

 

[Outlaw]

There is a lot of unpack in a question like that. I personally think social media in general is terrible and shouldn't exist. To engage with the question in an ideal utopia if something problematic were to exist I would like the government to restrict and to regulate it. The assumption is that in this utopia we have a government worth shyt. In reality if your asking me if I trust the government of the united states to responsibly regulate social media? The answer is no. I don't know if there is a government out there that I would.

If the goal of that question to try to connect China's censorship of their various social media outlets to my question earlier I still don't get it. I asked what is the message China is trying to push to Americans, what is the supposed outcome of that, are those outcomes any worse than the billionares to regulate our social media apps. I never argued that China's government doesn't regulates their social media apps.

Your logic doesn’t make any sense, we all agree right wing billionaires are bad, we don’t need to add China into the mix to exacerbate our problems.

You have also yet to explain why we should allow China to have control over American TikTok

 

[Pressure]

asked what is the message China is trying to push to Americans,

I answered this. China wants to undermine the faith in US institutions, sane wash their own facism, and sow general discord. If nothing else, they too have pushed the same things you’re critical of musk and Zuckerberg platforms of.

 

[Loose]

You aren’t elevating anything.

We know that Elon musk and mark zuckerburg are driven by greed more than anything else. We also know that their social media platforms are used by other groups to push their own narratives.

But that’s irrelevant to the point at hand because you crafted a strawman.

The initial statement was simple, the argument that the USA is bad for wanting TikTok banned while also championing China who bans foreign companies, has a national firewall, and counters outside influence is somehow better.

It’s an absurd argument. China clearly cares about “branding its citizens” with what China believes is correct.

And it clearly uses TikTok as a way to introduce dissent in foreign countries while simultaneously blocking that same information from its own citizens.

Why argue? They think it’s bad enough to ban and silo themselves.

This entire long ass diatribe boils down to

China bad: because us tech supremacy is important

Techno fascist: good because even though they'd like to deatory the administrative state they're us citizens

Boy oh Boy us have did a real brainwashing on our citizens.

 

[Pressure]

This entire long ass diatribe boils down to

China bad: because us tech supremacy is important

Techno fascist: good because even though they'd like to deatory the administrative state they're us citizens

Boy oh Boy us have did a real brainwashing on our citizens.

Another example of you not reading and just typing.

 

[Outlaw]

 

[Pressure]

@Loose what will your daughter study in university in Iran?

Iranian university bans on women causes consternation - BBC News

With the start of the new Iranian academic year, a raft of restrictions on courses open to female students has been introduced, raising questions about the rights of women to education in Iran - and the long-term impact such exclusions might have

www.bbc.com

 

[Th3G3ntleman]

Your logic doesn’t make any sense, we all agree right wing billionaires are bad, we don’t need to add China into the mix to exacerbate our problems.

You have also yet to explain why we should allow China to have control over American TikTok

I made this argument?

Like maybe I'm missing something here but it seems like consensus from both sides of this argument is that the Chinese are seeking to undermine our institutions and prop up their world view. Which seems like the basic purpose of western social media owners like Musk, Zuckerberg, etc. So when @Loose makes a statement that he doesn't see a difference between Chinas social media propaganda and US billionaire propaganda...how is he wrong again? Why is there a back and forth here?

 

[Outlaw]

I made this argument?

Like maybe I'm missing something here but it seems like consensus from both sides of this argument is that the Chinese are seeking to undermine our institutions and prop up their world view. Which seems like the basic purpose of western social media owners like Musk, Zuckerberg, etc. So when @Loose makes a statement that he doesn't see a difference between Chinas social media propaganda and US billionaire propaganda...how is he wrong again? Why is there a back and forth here?

First of all neither I nor @Pressure brought up US billionaires, @Loose did, so you’re asking us to defeat a strawman he constructed on his own.

Regardless he hasn’t made a case why China is more worthy of a social media company in America than American billionaires, he’s only saying if billionaires have them why can’t China?

His logic makes no sense because we both agree that billionaires owning social media companies are a problem, China being part of the mix can only make the problem worse.