Did Dr. Dre mismanage Rakim?

[Still Benefited]

how are they too big/powerful when Ra has rapped over some of the hardest beats ever already, know the ledge is harder than anything Dre put out. The bottom line is Dre didn't want his product outshined by the God MC lyrics. Rakim's albums were never checked for production first, whereas Dr Dre's were/are.

nah i disagree,i didn't even say he COULDNT rap over a Dre beat,but over the course of an album the fact his style and delivery is so monotone/laidback certain types of Dre beats would drown Rakim out,and a lot of the ones Dre was making during that period had potential to do that. just like certain rappers don't belong on trap beats no matter how good the trap beat is. its not an insult its an assumption.....he may have surprised me,but even if he COULD still don't mean those would be the type of beats that compliment him best.

Far as Dre bein scared of being outshined...hes been outshined and overshadowed on every album he ever produced on nikka...Snoop is half the reason Chronic is the classic it is....Cube and Eazy were the clear stars of NWA....Snoop outshined Dre horribly on the chronic and was the one to get the most hype and buzz coming off that,and Dre still produced on his album Doggystyle.(maybe),.....you can call Dre a lot of things but i don't know if jealous is one of em.....at least not of nikkas who can rap,being jealous of producers may be another story for competitive reasons.

 

[TLOL is back]

I think you should take your own advice, because you are not presenting any opposing arguments...

So, I have to believe that you have no logical argument against the statements I have made...

Did you really have to post that silly picture...?

I also don't present opposing arguments to people who think Wocka Flocka Flame is the GOAT. Some arguments are just too stupid to respond to.

 

[nineteeneightysix]

I also don't present opposing arguments to people who think Wocka Flocka Flame is the GOAT. Some arguments are just too stupid to respond to.

But I am NOT stating that "Waka Flocka is the GOAT" and I don't think that statement was ever, seriously, made on this forum...

I am saying Rakim is overrated...He is NOT a good candidate for a Top 10 GOAT list...Certainly, he is a pioneer, but that doesn't mean he gets an unanimous Top 10 ranking...

Why do I say this? Because he was IRRELEVANT in the greatest era of rap music, even though he was in his mid-to-late 20's...

If people like Kool G Rap can have the audacity to say 2Pac and Biggie don't deserve to be in their Top 10 list, then I don't think I am exaggerating when I say Rakim's standing in hip hop is overrated, when you consider what the rappers he is competing with have accomplished...

 

[DANJ!]

@nineteeneightysix I'm guessing by your name that you were still learning to read while ALL this shyt was going on, so I don't even know why I'm bothering to explain this... but something just occured to me:

Now your contention is that because he was "irrelevant" in what you consider to be the greatest era of all-time, he's not cut out to be amongst the GOATs. OK, but before you say that, consider this:

nikkas spent a GREAT deal of the greatest era of all time paying homage to what was then known as the greatest era of all time: the one in which Rakim was arguably the greatest MC. All them dudes- from Nas to Kurupt to Black Moon to Pac to even Master P, in one way or another paid homage to Rakim. Even as he had no new music out, nikkas were doin' remakes of his songs, quoting lyrics he did, naming him as one of their influences. There's a reason he was so heralded when he made his return: because these artists who blew up in the 90s respected him and considered him one of the greatest. So to say he was irrelevant is wayyyy off, cause all these nikkas you say he was scared to compete with were saluting him in his absence.

 

[Reality Check]

***snorts 3828seconds***

funny DJ Quik got 2 nikkas that was shelved put em together for their biggest hit while on aftermath, and the beat was originally for MC Lyte

Dre should have signed Quik and let him handle rakim's album, only reason Truth even got daylight was because of Quik, the watcher didnt have the same buzz as addictive

Because of Quik not getting the right clearance for that sample, he, Dre, Aftermath, and Interscope were sued for a shytload of money.

At this point Dr.Dre has mismanaged himself .

Dre has made hundreds of millions of dollars off of fukking headphones. If that qualifies as mismanagement, where do I sign up?

 

[NormanConnors]

nah i disagree,i didn't even say he COULDNT rap over a Dre beat,but over the course of an album the fact his style and delivery is so monotone/laidback certain types of Dre beats would drown Rakim out,and a lot of the ones Dre was making during that period had potential to do that. just like certain rappers don't belong on trap beats no matter how good the trap beat is. its not an insult its an assumption.....he may have surprised me,but even if he COULD still don't mean those would be the type of beats that compliment him best.

Far as Dre bein scared of being outshined...hes been outshined and overshadowed on every album he ever produced on nikka...Snoop is half the reason Chronic is the classic it is....Cube and Eazy were the clear stars of NWA....Snoop outshined Dre horribly on the chronic and was the one to get the most hype and buzz coming off that,and Dre still produced on his album Doggystyle.(maybe),.....you can call Dre a lot of things but i don't know if jealous is one of em.....at least not of nikkas who can rap,being jealous of producers may be another story for competitive reasons.

i feel what you are saying/see your point in regards to Ra. For a lyricist a beat with not too much going on would be beneficial. To his credit though he ripped the watcher 2 and the after we die beat. Dre's signature sound at that time was the clean/minimal sounding production. Most of the beats 50 got for GRODT from Dre was for Ra, but as it was noted already they couldn't come to an agreement on content. You mean to tell me Ra wouldn't have ripped In Da Club, Heat or Back Down

I disagree on Dre being outshined on EVERYTHING he's produced on though , maybe by his ghost producers but not by many rappers or singers on his beats with the exception of Em, early Snoop and the DOC, if anything it was equal. His work with Michel'le is an example of that and how he was able to provide beats that compliment the artist making a perfect marriage. Doggystyle is a great example of that also.

it' s the producers job to construct beats that fit the artist

 

[lutha]

yea, he did...there's no way you can justify why one of the best producers ever couldnt put out a cd with one of the best mcs ever after he signed to the label to do an album....it couldnt be that hard...i mean, they already had the name of the cd picked out: Oh My God...seems to me Dre was more concerned about sales and how to market it than the music...what's funny/sad about it is if they wouldve just dropped dope music, the sales/marketing/money wouldve taken care of themselves...

 

[Still Benefited]

i feel what you are saying/see your point in regards to Ra. For a lyricist a beat with not too much going on would be beneficial. To his credit though he ripped the watcher 2 and the after we die beat. Dre's signature sound at that time was the clean/minimal sounding production. Most of the beats 50 got for GRODT from Dre was for Ra, but as it was noted already they couldn't come to an agreement on content. You mean to tell me Ra wouldn't have ripped In Da Club, Heat or Back Down

I disagree on Dre being outshined on EVERYTHING he's produced on though , maybe by his ghost producers but not by many rappers or singers on his beats with the exception of Em, early Snoop and the DOC, if anything it was equal. His work with Michel'le is an example of that and how he was able to provide beats that compliment the artist making a perfect marriage. Doggystyle is a great example of that also.

it' s the producers job to construct beats that fit the artist

im tryna imagine Ra over In Da Club and eeeehh,i guess i could see him over it if i never heard 50 over it. But after hearin 50 on it i cant say i think Rakim could do it more justice than 50 did to its full potential.He can rip alotta beats but i don't think In Da Club would compliment him,it would just be nice rapper nice beat which is almost ALWAYS passable. But not what classics are made of...Back DOwn would be cool for him to rap over tho,i think hed handle that easy.

But i gotta agree Dre probaly shoulda been able to craft beats that suited Rakim, but Dre has a legacy of producing which INCLUDES giving rappers instruction on what he thinks they should rap about,and what kinda delivery he thinks they should use etc....he takes on all those responsibilitys of a producer and has made classics doing that...he gives that instruction and his young pupils take it. Can i blame him for wanting to stick with a recipe that has created classic after classic,especially since its HIS LABEL and hes Dr Dre?hell nah i cant blame em

Then on the other hand you have Rakim,and can i really blame him for not wanting to take instruction from ANYBODY on HOW to rap or what he should be rapping about?absolutely not,no way in hell you can blame him either.

creative differences does seem like the best way to describe this...who do you ask to bend in this scenario?its Dres label,hes Dr Dre so its hard to question results. Rakim is Rakim and its hard to argue with the results of him rapping without anybodys help. End of the day its Dres label though,id prefer Rakim bend but respect him for not bending if that makes sense. it probaly wouldn't have sounded like an authentic Rakim talkin about what Dre wanted which could have made for a bad album just as well. sounded great on paper though

Far as west coast production whoever said Quik was a better fit was right,and i think Johnny J woulda been a great fit too. but neither sound as good as Rakim and DRe,and neither could sign Rakim

 

[Big Boss]

***snorts 3828seconds***

funny DJ Quik got 2 nikkas that was shelved put em together for their biggest hit while on aftermath, and the beat was originally for MC Lyte

Dre should have signed Quik and let him handle rakim's album, only reason Truth even got daylight was because of Quik, the watcher didnt have the same buzz as addictive

 

[NormanConnors]

im tryna imagine Ra over In Da Club and eeeehh,i guess i could see him over it if i never heard 50 over it. But after hearin 50 on it i cant say i think Rakim could do it more justice than 50 did to its full potential.He can rip alotta beats but i don't think In Da Club would compliment him,it would just be nice rapper nice beat which is almost ALWAYS passable. But not what classics are made of...Back DOwn would be cool for him to rap over tho,i think hed handle that easy.

But i gotta agree Dre probaly shoulda been able to craft beats that suited Rakim, but Dre has a legacy of producing which INCLUDES giving rappers instruction on what he thinks they should rap about,and what kinda delivery he thinks they should use etc....he takes on all those responsibilitys of a producer and has made classics doing that...he gives that instruction and his young pupils take it. Can i blame him for wanting to stick with a recipe that has created classic after classic,especially since its HIS LABEL and hes Dr Dre?hell nah i cant blame em

Then on the other hand you have Rakim,and can i really blame him for not wanting to take instruction from ANYBODY on HOW to rap or what he should be rapping about?absolutely not,no way in hell you can blame him either.

creative differences does seem like the best way to describe this...who do you ask to bend in this scenario?its Dres label,hes Dr Dre so its hard to question results. Rakim is Rakim and its hard to argue with the results of him rapping without anybodys help. End of the day its Dres label though,id prefer Rakim bend but respect him for not bending if that makes sense. it probaly wouldn't have sounded like an authentic Rakim talkin about what Dre wanted which could have made for a bad album just as well. sounded great on paper though

Far as west coast production whoever said Quik was a better fit was right,and i think Johnny J woulda been a great fit too. but neither sound as good as Rakim and DRe,and neither could sign Rakim

good stuff right here, i feel you. and yeah working with Quik would def be The truth hurts joing proved that

 

[tirademode]

Dre has made hundreds of millions of dollars off of fukking headphones. If that qualifies as mismanagement, where do I sign up?

Was waiting for this comment .

Surprised it took so long .

 

[x-factor7]

Rakim's DNA was all over 90's hip-hop, when he was so-called "irrelevant" during that era as @nineteeneightysix put it

 

[Tetris v2.0]

Lesbianhonest tho, Rakim was never gonna sell no rekkids

Jimmy was like

 

[TLOL is back]

But I am NOT stating that "Waka Flocka is the GOAT" and I don't think that statement was ever, seriously, made on this forum...

I am saying Rakim is overrated...He is NOT a good candidate for a Top 10 GOAT list...Certainly, he is a pioneer, but that doesn't mean he gets an unanimous Top 10 ranking...

Why do I say this? Because he was IRRELEVANT in the greatest era of rap music, even though he was in his mid-to-late 20's...

If people like Kool G Rap can have the audacity to say 2Pac and Biggie don't deserve to be in their Top 10 list, then I don't think I am exaggerating when I say Rakim's standing in hip hop is overrated, when you consider what the rappers he is competing with have accomplished...

Kool G Rap is infinitely more talented than Pac and Biggie. The fact that you are not aware of that speaks volumes.

He's not just "a pioneer." He is the inspiration of most (if not all) of everyone else who deserves to be on the list. He taught MCs how to rhyme. Honestly, you are clearly speaking about something you don't understand.

 

[Da_Eggman]

still cant believe no tracks ever leaked from this