Do Americans really understand Fascism?
- Thread starter Unknown Poster
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ez clap question
Most countries in the world would hit many of the boxes on that check list. shyt, place like India looks like a strong candidate based on that list. Are we calling them fascist as well?
You could tick off most if not all of those boxes pre-Trump. The issue is that while people like the neocons and neolibs were looking up to people like Regan for how he was able to rob the working class blind relatively peacefully, Trump's hero is Andrew Jackson, who funny enough inspired Hittler. People keep comparing him to the latter when we still have this genocidal maniac on our money.......
He's trying to emulate one of our founding fathers.
"Societies that once were open and had democratic traditions are easy prey for the enemies of democracy. These demagogues pay deference to the patriotic ideals, rituals, practices and forms of the old democratic political system while dismantling it. When the Roman Emperor Augustus—he referred to himself as the “first citizen”—neutered the republic, he was careful to maintain the form of the old republic.- Chris Hedges
The Death Of The Republic
Also, as far as my understanding goes, a fascist state requires a singular leader. Is Trump that person? I don't see how this weak, insecure child who is constantly called into question by (half) the media, population, and representatives fits the bill. Are folks giving him too much credit or am I underestimating him?
Also, if the current Oligarchy wanted a puppet as the head of their fascist state, surely they'd have a better candidate than this idiot.
you already made this thread
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/do-americans-truly-understand-fascism.791182/
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/do-americans-truly-understand-fascism.791182/
Putting asylum-seeking kids in cages was not "enforcing immigration law" and forced hysterectomies were not "allowing women control over reproduction. You're a weird one indeed.This sounds a bit sensational to me. Americans may not generally understand a lot of things, but I don't see how enforcing immigration law, allowing women control over reproduction, and an inept President qualifies as fascism, now (none of these are unique to Trump's presidency).
Also, I don't know if a truly fascist state would bother with keeping up the facade of democratic elections, two party system, etc.
There's a lot wrong with the US, I agree. But I'd need a better argument put forth if I'm to be sold in it now becoming fascist
You're also kinda ignoring openly supporting police violence against Black folk, openly refusing to obey court orders, promoting extreme nationalism, dropping human rights from both international and domestic documents, supporting torture, the suppression and demonization of media and journalism that doesn't directly support the state narrative, sending troops into US cities against the will of state authorities, violently beating nonviolent protestors to set up a photo-op, voter suppression to the point of even trying to destroy public mail, and stated refusal to accept the results of elections.
The current Indian government is straight-up fascist, hell yeah. The equivalent of secular liberals over there have been saying that for 5+ years to the point where it ain't even worth arguing anymore.
Last year the Hindu Supremacist government unilaterally took over control of the only Muslim-majority state in the control in a secret maneuver that wasn't announced publicly until after it had already begun. They started by jailing thousands of Muslim politicians and activists who they thought might pose any resistance, shutting off internet to the entire state, and closing down all schools and colleges and refusing to allow anyone to meet outside their homes. Parts of the state STILL have their internet shut down more than a year later, the longest internet shutdown in any "democracy" in world history.
Also last year after the government officially passed a measure giving non-Muslim illegal immigrants citizenship while barring Muslims from the same policy, the protests that results were put down by mass beatings of protestors, widespread torture, and gangs of police officers roving through the streets busting car and storefront windows in neighborhoods they deemed were insufficiently obedient. This shyt was caught on VIDEO and not only were the police not disciplined, the ministers involved bragged about it and said the protestors would think twice about opposing government action now.
And just this year several majority-party politicians led massive riots that killed 50+ people because they didn't like that nonviolent protesters were blocking a road. Those politicians are still free, which isn't surprising because the Prime Minister of India once orchestrated anti-Muslim riots in his own home state which killed 2000 people. He also named a literal terrorist bomber to his Defense Committee who set off a bomb that had killed 10 people and injured 82 others. The same person publicly praised Gandhi's killer and said he was a national hero.
Also the current government has been overturning election results in one state after another by bribing the elected officials to switch to their party after they win the seats.
India has become fascist as fukk.
Yes, yes we are.
India Has The Longest Running Fascist Movement in the World
Also, as far as my understanding goes, a fascist state requires a singular leader. Is Trump that person? I don't see how this weak, insecure child who is constantly called into question by (half) the media, population, and representatives fits the bill. Are folks giving him too much credit or am I underestimating him?
The state is a corporate authoritarian state. Fascism is about ideology and behavior. A fascist or a fascist regime doesn't need to be in control of the entire state to thrive or pursue that control. The KKK could arguably be seen as one of the first fascist movements.
As for whether you're underestimating him, you wouldn't be the first to do so:
But even with all that said, if we make it all about him and not addressing the framework that's allowing him to make a play at turning the STATE fascist, everything is in place for someone less buffoonish to come along and make up for his short comings.
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
The whole issue is that the West has done an amazing propaganda job in assimilating fascism to Nazi Germany and ONLY TO THEM. So the counter-argument is often "But this isn't Hitler Germany" as if fascism only has one form. People don't remember that fascism wasn't even born in Germany nor that it wasn' the first country where it got into power. And obviously, since the narrative is that the West and the US "defeated Nazis", then obviously they can't be fascists right? Well, the fact is that the US and the West fought the Nazis not for ideological, but for strategic reasons, like any other war.
Also fascism is always seen only at it's "absolute worst", in the sense that people will always think "Well, I can still chose my newspapers, travel and vote, so what's the problem", there too not understanding that fascism takes time to be fully implemented.
Also fascism is always seen only at it's "absolute worst", in the sense that people will always think "Well, I can still chose my newspapers, travel and vote, so what's the problem", there too not understanding that fascism takes time to be fully implemented.
Fear mongering has become the lefts go to strategy. shyts disgusting.
If you have to frighten people to get them to side with you, you and your argument are trash.
Moreover, anyone who truly believes we live under a fascists state is completely untethered from reality.
OP is summed up nicely by Orwell... George Orwell wrote in 1944 that "the word 'Fascism' is almost entirely meaningless ... almost any English person would accept 'bully' as a synonym for 'Fascist'".
Fearmongering is how the american right scares the populace and galvanizes the base.
The idea of this mythical white ethno-state being threatened by China/muslims/blacks and latinos is the bedrock of US fascist thought.
The native capitalists always align with fascists to protect their interests from progressives.
The difference is now the coalition of the fascist righgwing native capitalists is clashing with global capitalists.
Go ahead and look at the lawsuit of 3000+ companies against Trump's protectionist policies.
You should probably consider the time when America was enslaving one entire race and exterminating another as a time when it was it's most Fascist. You know...the period in American history that Hitler wrote about trying to emulate with Germany. We had the "Wild West", they had the "Wild East".
Anyway, it seems like people with this take feel like Fascism has a monopoly on bad government. I guess it's hard for me to think of an example of a country under a Fascist regime with: an energized, vocal, and active opposition party; regular protests, demonstrations, and riots against them; an upcoming election with a debate this week (I believe you AmErIcA iS fAsCiSt!! types were saying Trump would never allow debates); a media which spends nearly all its time criticizing the leader; a leader that has been impeached; a military making statements that it will not take party positions; is the world's largest migrant destination; etc. etc. etc.
I mean, if America is under a Fascist regime right now it completely and utterly sucks at being Fascist.
@Rhakim @SunZoo - good posts. I had no idea about the forced hysterectomies. That's wild.
I guess I'm just having a hard time differentiating all of America's atrocities in the past (both abroad and domestic) from the current examples being put forth. I'd have no qualms if the premise of the thread was "America has always been fascist" as it would be consistent with it's history.
I guess I'm just having a hard time differentiating all of America's atrocities in the past (both abroad and domestic) from the current examples being put forth. I'd have no qualms if the premise of the thread was "America has always been fascist" as it would be consistent with it's history.
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
It is a wannabe fascist regime, but I agree America ain't there and Trump has no idea how to get there.
The issue is always the smarter Trump who can maneuver things to get what they want.
DonKnock
KPJ Gonna Save Us
I don't really understand fascism. I know it's been applied to Nazi Germany and Mussolini's Italy but I'd be interested in a ELI5 breakdown of what this entails in practice, and whether the US in particular is headed down this path.
New Jeruzalem Journalist
Superstar
All of this breh's works should be mandatory viewing, he releases some of the best researched and most entertaining videos on Youtube IMO. But this video on white fascism is brilliant and scary as fukk to boot.