Do the ppl who are mad at "defund the police" have a plan for racist police brutality?

AnonymityX1000

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I know Centrists think it's a smart tactic to shyt on the slogan which indirectly like it or not also shyts on the underlying policy issues especially when you talk about it in an ineloquent manner for example:

You sound like you just don't care about the overall issue especially when you aren't offering an alternative slogan.
What's going to happen when a police officer inevitably kills another unarmed Black man? All the politicians shytting on the slogan now are going to look funny in that light. We saw how it played out with George Floyd, it scary hours for a minute. They are playing politics with the wrong issue IMO. For Republicans they always didn't give a fukk. Dems pretend to so shyt on 'Defund the Police' at your own risk. :francis:
 
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God Almighty

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"Defund police" is a con run by Whites masquerading as do-gooders. Their aim is to steer funding towards organizations and agencies that they run.
Do you have sources to back this up?

The biggest issue is the messaging and the word “defund”. I live in KY and work in construction and when that first popped up I heard whites on the site talking about it in a hushed tone kinda shook.
If this tactic has them shook, they're more likely to agree to incremental reforms, according to centrism. So they should support the slogan.
 

Pressure

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i dont think reduction of police is mutually exclusive with improving equal application of justice. both can be persued at the same time

and people arent merely mad about a lack of accountability for the most egregious abuses like killings, they are tired of daily oppression from officers that doesnt go viral and often results in putting black men into the system which they may never fully escape from. and those kinds of interactions may be "legal" and "defensable" according to the laws on the books. a reduction in interactions by way of a reduction in the scope of what police are allowed to be doing would deliver results for that.
You clearly don't understand what the term justice means based on this word Salad.
 

get these nets

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Do you have sources to back this up?
.
What I have are 3 stories. Two Black mayors publicly questioning the motives of Whites who promote defund the police
San zFrancisco, CA
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/bla...cting-your-beliefs-to-black-residents.793774/

Newark, NJ
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/new...dget-but-keeps-it-100-about-defunding.785932/

and the current defunding story in Chicago, as discussed by members from that area
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/defunding-the-police-in-chicago-is-underway.791432/


I had skepticism about the motives behind this call, and the way it was rapidly heard and repeated by Black protestors.
 

God Almighty

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What I have are 3 stories. Two Black mayors publicly questioning the motives of Whites who promote defund the police
San zFrancisco, CA
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/bla...cting-your-beliefs-to-black-residents.793774/

Newark, NJ
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/new...dget-but-keeps-it-100-about-defunding.785932/

and the current defunding story in Chicago, as discussed by members from that area
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/defunding-the-police-in-chicago-is-underway.791432/


I had skepticism about the motives behind this call, and the way it was rapidly heard and repeated by Black protestors.
An interesting development that we'll have to keep an eye on. I don't see funding being steered toward organizations and agencies run by whites masquerading as do-gooders yet, though. Even if that were the case, what orgs and agencies are you concerned about, specifically?
 

wire28

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Come on OP you know white people ain't up to punish their race soldiers when they kill our black ass. They will even do backflips when white people are killed by those same cops...:beli:
OP is a white Bernie bro cultist who the mods still haven’t banned, you are giving him far too much credit
I agree. Which is why framing it as a way to save black lives is dishonest.

It's also offensive coming from a white man.

I expect this alias to be banned as well.
The mods have been giving him more passes than one would expect...
 

Kenny West

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The defund the police movenent got my city a police oversight committee. :wow: progressives run shyt here tho, even our DA Larry Krasner.


thank god we booted out the centrists, they would be juelzing to avoid doing anything just to appease racists, like the fukkbois representing most of yall :blessed:
 

duncanthetall

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The defund the police movenent got my city a police oversight committee. :wow: progressives run shyt here tho, even our DA Larry Krasner.


thank god we booted out the centrists, they would be juelzing to avoid doing anything just to appease racists, like the fukkbois representing most of yall :blessed:
Oh it worked in your city? A real American city? :lupe:
 

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Oh it worked in your city? A real American city? :lupe:

This New Jersey city disbanded its police department 7 years ago. Here's what happened next - CNN

(CNN)Last week, Minneapolis officials confirmed they were considering a fairly rare course of action: disbanding the city police department.

It's not the first locale to break up a department, but no cities as populous have ever attempted it. Minneapolis City Council members haven't specified what or who will replace it if the department disbands.

Camden, New Jersey, may be the closest thing to a case study they can get.



Minneapolis City Council members intend to defund and dismantle the city's police department

The city, home to a population about 17% of Minneapolis' size, dissolved its police department in 2012 and replaced it with an entirely new one after corruption rendered the existing agency unfixable.

Before its police reforms, Camden was routinely named one of the most violent cities in the US.

Now, seven years after the old department was booted (though around 100 officers were rehired), the city's crime has dropped by close to half. Officers host outdoor parties for residents and knock on doors to introduce themselves. It's a radically different Camden than it was even a decade ago. Here's how they did it.

Why departments dissolve police

A city's decision to dissolve its police department is often a matter of money -- and the cities that chose to do so are often quite small. Camden comes closest to Minneapolis in its size and history of misconduct.

Earlier this year, the village of Deposit, New York, dissolved its department because it cost $200,000 per year. Now, a single sheriff's deputy is assigned to the village, CNN affiliate WICZ reported. Garden City, Missouri, laid off all of its officers and suspended its police chief because, as its mayor said in 2018, the city couldn't afford to keep them employed.

In a bizarre move, Rio Vista police leadership abruptly left the department, and half of the remaining officers left for other jobs, so the California city's department could no longer go on, CNN affiliate KCRA reported in January.
200608135326-01-camden-nj-floyd-protest-exlarge-169.jpg


Lt. Zack James of the Camden County Metro Police Department marches along with demonstrators in Camden.

Camden dissolved its police department to root out corruption.

The city's crime rate was among the worst in the US. Within nine square miles and among nearly 75,000 residents, there were over 170 open-air drug markets reported in 2013, county officials told CNN. Violent crime abounded. Police corruption was at the core.

Lawsuits filed against the department uncovered that officers routinely planted evidence on suspects, fabricated reports and committed perjury. After the corruption was exposed, courts overturned the convictions of 88 people, the ACLU reported in 2013.

So in 2012, officials voted to completely disband the department -- it was beyond reform.
And in 2013, the Camden County Police Department officially began its tenure. No other city of Camden's size has done anything quite like it.

How the new Camden police changed its approach

City officials had two objectives in remaking Camden's police: reduce crippling violent crime and make residents feel safer.

Louis Cappelli, Camden County freeholder director (another term for a county-level public official), said the department still has a ways to go, but its efforts over the last seven years have been largely successful.

"Back then residents of Camden city absolutely feared the police department and members of the department," he told CNN. "They (the residents) wanted that to change."
Violent crimes have dropped 42% in seven years, according to city crime data provided by the department. The crime rate has dropped from 79 per 1,000 to 44 per 1,000, the data shows.
200608135655-02-camden-county-police-department-exlarge-169.jpg


A Camden County officer grills hot dogs for one of the department's pop-up neighborhood parties.

Cappelli credits the improvement to new "community-oriented policing," which prizes partnership and problem-solving over violence and punishment.

It starts from an officer's first day: When a new recruit joins the force, they're required to knock on the doors of homes in the neighborhood they're assigned to patrol, he said. They introduce themselves and ask neighbors what needs improving.

Training emphasizes deescalation, he said, and the department's use of force policy makes clear that deadly force is the last option.

Now, police host pop-up barbecues and pull up in Mister Softee trucks to get to know residents, Cappelli said. They host drive-in movie nights -- recently, the movie of choice was "The Lion King" -- along what used to be known as the city's "Heroin Highway."

The community-first initiative has made improving diversity within the force a priority, too. Whites are the minority in Camden, so Cappelli said the new department has hired more black and brown officers to serve black and brown residents. (Cappelli didn't have exact numbers for the increase, but said it's improved.)

Cappelli said the new department also hired over 100 officers who previously served the dissolved Camden Police Department. They joined the department, which now employs over 400.

"We want to make sure residents of the city know these streets are theirs," he said. "They need to claim these streets as their own, not let drug dealers and criminals claim them."

What Minneapolis can learn from criticism of Camden

Camden and Minneapolis aren't perfect mirrors. The Midwestern metropolis is predominantly white -- 63% of the population -- and less than 19% black. In Camden, less than a quarter of all residents are white, but 42% of the population is black and over 50% is Latino.
Camden also has about 356,000 fewer residents.

The criticisms lodged at Camden, though, may inform how Minneapolis goes about its restructuring.
200608135641-01-camden-county-police-department-exlarge-169.jpg


Camden County police pose with residents outside a Mister Softee ice cream truck.
Ojii BaBa Madi, a lifelong resident of Camden and Justice Minister at Asbury Community Church, said he's felt no improvement in his relationship with police because many of the new officers don't live in Camden or know the community well.

Additionally, the department's racial makeup isn't entirely reflective of the city it serves, he told CNN in an email.

"The demographics of the city do not reflect these demographics," he said. "With a white chief, as thoughtful and progressive as he is, and only one African American captain out of seven, both the dynamics and optics of race are a problem."

What has improved, he said, is officers' willingness to have a "productive dialogue" between police and community leaders like him. And the city "does feel much safer at the neighborhood level" since police started shuttering open-air drug markets.

As for abolishing police entirely, Ojii said the city is "far away from any practical de-policed reality" partly because of the crime that still exists there.

"I would prefer to nail some best practices for policing as it should be," he said, as the city -- and society -- figures out how to change law enforcement as it exists now.
200608135713-04-camden-county-police-department-exlarge-169.jpg


A Camden County officer plays basketball with a young resident.

Nyeema Watson, also a lifelong Camden resident who's the associate chancellor for civic engagement at Rutgers University -- Camden, said she thinks the restructuring has had a largely positive impact. Officers are more visible now, and they're building trust and welcoming feedback.

Camden County Police Chief Joseph Wysocki marched with Camden residents in a "Black Lives Matter" protest in May. Hearing him acknowledge the "rightful pain, anger and frustration" black residents feel about police brutality was powerful, Watson said.
Watson and Ojii agreed the city's problems remain unsolved. Those require more work than a shift in law enforcement alone can provide.

"We can't police our way out of social issues, unemployment, disproportionate health issues, economic challenges -- these are things that drive crime," Watson said.

When the city improves access to education for its residents, they'll better understand systemic racism within law enforcement and how to dismantle it, she said.

"There are so many issues in our city, outside of policing, that promote a constant level of tension," Ojii said, naming gentrification, poverty and addiction among them. "In essence, Camden remains a tale of two cities."
 

mastermind

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This New Jersey city disbanded its police department 7 years ago. Here's what happened next - CNN

(CNN)Last week, Minneapolis officials confirmed they were considering a fairly rare course of action: disbanding the city police department.

It's not the first locale to break up a department, but no cities as populous have ever attempted it. Minneapolis City Council members haven't specified what or who will replace it if the department disbands.

Camden, New Jersey, may be the closest thing to a case study they can get.



Minneapolis City Council members intend to defund and dismantle the city's police department

The city, home to a population about 17% of Minneapolis' size, dissolved its police department in 2012 and replaced it with an entirely new one after corruption rendered the existing agency unfixable.

Before its police reforms, Camden was routinely named one of the most violent cities in the US.

Now, seven years after the old department was booted (though around 100 officers were rehired), the city's crime has dropped by close to half. Officers host outdoor parties for residents and knock on doors to introduce themselves. It's a radically different Camden than it was even a decade ago. Here's how they did it.

Why departments dissolve police

A city's decision to dissolve its police department is often a matter of money -- and the cities that chose to do so are often quite small. Camden comes closest to Minneapolis in its size and history of misconduct.

Earlier this year, the village of Deposit, New York, dissolved its department because it cost $200,000 per year. Now, a single sheriff's deputy is assigned to the village, CNN affiliate WICZ reported. Garden City, Missouri, laid off all of its officers and suspended its police chief because, as its mayor said in 2018, the city couldn't afford to keep them employed.

In a bizarre move, Rio Vista police leadership abruptly left the department, and half of the remaining officers left for other jobs, so the California city's department could no longer go on, CNN affiliate KCRA reported in January.
200608135326-01-camden-nj-floyd-protest-exlarge-169.jpg


Lt. Zack James of the Camden County Metro Police Department marches along with demonstrators in Camden.

Camden dissolved its police department to root out corruption.

The city's crime rate was among the worst in the US. Within nine square miles and among nearly 75,000 residents, there were over 170 open-air drug markets reported in 2013, county officials told CNN. Violent crime abounded. Police corruption was at the core.

Lawsuits filed against the department uncovered that officers routinely planted evidence on suspects, fabricated reports and committed perjury. After the corruption was exposed, courts overturned the convictions of 88 people, the ACLU reported in 2013.

So in 2012, officials voted to completely disband the department -- it was beyond reform.
And in 2013, the Camden County Police Department officially began its tenure. No other city of Camden's size has done anything quite like it.

How the new Camden police changed its approach

City officials had two objectives in remaking Camden's police: reduce crippling violent crime and make residents feel safer.

Louis Cappelli, Camden County freeholder director (another term for a county-level public official), said the department still has a ways to go, but its efforts over the last seven years have been largely successful.

"Back then residents of Camden city absolutely feared the police department and members of the department," he told CNN. "They (the residents) wanted that to change."
Violent crimes have dropped 42% in seven years, according to city crime data provided by the department. The crime rate has dropped from 79 per 1,000 to 44 per 1,000, the data shows.
200608135655-02-camden-county-police-department-exlarge-169.jpg


A Camden County officer grills hot dogs for one of the department's pop-up neighborhood parties.

Cappelli credits the improvement to new "community-oriented policing," which prizes partnership and problem-solving over violence and punishment.

It starts from an officer's first day: When a new recruit joins the force, they're required to knock on the doors of homes in the neighborhood they're assigned to patrol, he said. They introduce themselves and ask neighbors what needs improving.

Training emphasizes deescalation, he said, and the department's use of force policy makes clear that deadly force is the last option.

Now, police host pop-up barbecues and pull up in Mister Softee trucks to get to know residents, Cappelli said. They host drive-in movie nights -- recently, the movie of choice was "The Lion King" -- along what used to be known as the city's "Heroin Highway."

The community-first initiative has made improving diversity within the force a priority, too. Whites are the minority in Camden, so Cappelli said the new department has hired more black and brown officers to serve black and brown residents. (Cappelli didn't have exact numbers for the increase, but said it's improved.)

Cappelli said the new department also hired over 100 officers who previously served the dissolved Camden Police Department. They joined the department, which now employs over 400.

"We want to make sure residents of the city know these streets are theirs," he said. "They need to claim these streets as their own, not let drug dealers and criminals claim them."

What Minneapolis can learn from criticism of Camden

Camden and Minneapolis aren't perfect mirrors. The Midwestern metropolis is predominantly white -- 63% of the population -- and less than 19% black. In Camden, less than a quarter of all residents are white, but 42% of the population is black and over 50% is Latino.
Camden also has about 356,000 fewer residents.

The criticisms lodged at Camden, though, may inform how Minneapolis goes about its restructuring.
200608135641-01-camden-county-police-department-exlarge-169.jpg


Camden County police pose with residents outside a Mister Softee ice cream truck.
Ojii BaBa Madi, a lifelong resident of Camden and Justice Minister at Asbury Community Church, said he's felt no improvement in his relationship with police because many of the new officers don't live in Camden or know the community well.

Additionally, the department's racial makeup isn't entirely reflective of the city it serves, he told CNN in an email.

"The demographics of the city do not reflect these demographics," he said. "With a white chief, as thoughtful and progressive as he is, and only one African American captain out of seven, both the dynamics and optics of race are a problem."

What has improved, he said, is officers' willingness to have a "productive dialogue" between police and community leaders like him. And the city "does feel much safer at the neighborhood level" since police started shuttering open-air drug markets.

As for abolishing police entirely, Ojii said the city is "far away from any practical de-policed reality" partly because of the crime that still exists there.

"I would prefer to nail some best practices for policing as it should be," he said, as the city -- and society -- figures out how to change law enforcement as it exists now.
200608135713-04-camden-county-police-department-exlarge-169.jpg


A Camden County officer plays basketball with a young resident.

Nyeema Watson, also a lifelong Camden resident who's the associate chancellor for civic engagement at Rutgers University -- Camden, said she thinks the restructuring has had a largely positive impact. Officers are more visible now, and they're building trust and welcoming feedback.

Camden County Police Chief Joseph Wysocki marched with Camden residents in a "Black Lives Matter" protest in May. Hearing him acknowledge the "rightful pain, anger and frustration" black residents feel about police brutality was powerful, Watson said.
Watson and Ojii agreed the city's problems remain unsolved. Those require more work than a shift in law enforcement alone can provide.

"We can't police our way out of social issues, unemployment, disproportionate health issues, economic challenges -- these are things that drive crime," Watson said.

When the city improves access to education for its residents, they'll better understand systemic racism within law enforcement and how to dismantle it, she said.

"There are so many issues in our city, outside of policing, that promote a constant level of tension," Ojii said, naming gentrification, poverty and addiction among them. "In essence, Camden remains a tale of two cities."
They didn’t defund the police in Camden, but they did change it.
 
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Kenny West

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They didn’t define the police in Camden, but they did change it.
This whole debate is disingenuous becauss nobody explicitly endorsed defund the police, it was just something that came about from the protests.

These centrists dont want to do anything about it. Period. I think its the single most polarizing yet impactful political item for black people emotionally and because of that repubs and lowkey racist "right leaning dems" will fight it to their dying breathe. Police are central pillar to their beloved racism. Any bill remotely influenced by police brutality will be resisted

I was on the ground for them protests. "Defeund the police" nor "black lives matter" wasn't some focus group tested slogan made by politicians. its just what came up to express a problem so pervasive nationally thats frustrated our people forever. Neither slogan is "good". We spent 5 years arguing something simple as " Black Lives Matter " and half the country still finds it a triggering and derogatory statement that deserves pushback. It was never about crafting a perfect message.

Thats what all this hand wringing is really about. And i know these people are advocating to drop the issue entirely rather than do any kind of reform under any name
 
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ogc163

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It's a dumbass slogan, you can shyt on the slogan while agreeing with many of the main points behind the slogan. This is one of several issues where progressives turn into left wing versions of tech bro libertarians and ignore the role of perception and persuasiveness because they are adamant they are "right". Again put down the fukking Chomsky and pick up some Cialdini, if that's not high brow enough for you jokers then read Cicero or Bernays.
 
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