Duncan or Hakeem, who you taking?

[Bomberman]

Don't even know how you can guard this:


Some of the stuff Hakeem did in this video made the moves he put on David Robinson look like d-league.

 

[Rakim Allah]

Duncan had the better career but The Dream was the better talent.

I have Duncan slightly above The Dream on my all time list because of the extra ships, but I'm taking The Dream.

 

[Jplaya2023]

5 rings to Shaq's 4 and Hakeem's 2

Tim got 2 MVP's, Shaq and Hakeem only got 1 each

Tim got more All-NBA team appearances than Shaq and Hakeem

stop bringing up rings in this discussion

 

[Made Myself A Boss]

Have no other rebuttal so accuse me of never having seen Hakeem play

I'm 24 and distinctly remembering Dream ether my whole household as a kid back in SA.

Plus there's shyt called film nikka, I've been able to watch Hakeem in action plenty of times. Man is a legend and I'll never say otherwise

But you ain't winning this argument though lil buddy

Plus I didn't even mention Tim got more All Defensive Team selections though Hakeem and Shaq

Well if your argument consists of #s that you read off a Wikipedia page then you know its

You saying crazy shyt like Duncan is better then Shaq, its lets me know that you just weren't old enough to appreciate the brand of basketball we enjoyed in the 90s..

There were no "minute restrictions", there were no "nights off for rest" , there wasn't even as much ball movement..

Everything was mano y mano. And we (80s babies) remember those moments.. Now a days too many of you rely on a statistic to tell you who was better, and don't appreciate the individual skill each person has.
.

 

[Juggalo Fred]

I'm 24

24 = you saw him as a Raptor when you were like 8 or 9 years old

 

[Regular_P]

Timmy and I don't even understand why it would be close...

If I take a young Timmy I can surround him with aging players (Robinson) and a bunch of borderline bums...I'll win rings (Timmy did that)

Can you say the same for Hakeem?

If I take a prime Timmy it doesn't really matter what I put around him...point guards who can't shoot (avery and early career tony parker), Big men who have no real discernible skill (every big man next to Timmy since Robinson except for Splitter LAST YEAR) euro league players learning how to play in the nba (manu was a turnover machine early in his career...ending his career as a turnover machine)...wings players who have no more than two real skills (sean ellliot shooting, Bruce Bowen defense and shooting, Captain Jack and his nuts, ) I'll win rings (Timmy did that)

Can you say the same for Hakeem?

If I take an old past his prime can barely run left leg doesn't work half the time Timmy, change my offense to and up tempo 3 point shooting fest, and ask Timmy to primarily work as my defensive anchor and rebounder...I'll win at least 1 ring (Timmy did that)...

Can you say the same for Hakeem...

Kareem and/or Wilt are the only big men I am ever considering taking over Timmy...every time the argument comes up I ask

1. As a rookie and young player can you put him on a team and win a ring?
2. In his prime can he bee the focal point of everything you do on both ends of the floor and win a ring?
3. Can he age gracefully, change his game to match an ever evolving NBA, and win a ring?

Timmy did all three in real life, so I need whatever big man he is being compared to, to do it in hypothetical life...

I seem to be one of the few people on planet earth who remembers Hakeem's Raptor years...

The question isn't...Who do yo pick Duncan or insert random name here...

The question is...Ca insert random name here be the catalyst for winning 50 games a year for 18 years, win a total of 5 chips, with some coming in his younger years, some coming in his prime years, and one coming at the end of his career?

Cause if you don't think you can do that with insert random name here...then how could he be better?

Duncan didn't win a ring as a rookie.

This is almost a coin flip argument. I think Hakeem's peak was better than Duncan's, but obviously Duncan's run lasted a little longer. Anybody saying Duncan's situation didn't heavily contribute to his longevity is kidding themselves.

Duncan's had the same all-time great coach his entire career and the best front office in the league as well. They've consistently put the right kind of talent around him and Parker and Ginobili's ascension took a lot of miles off his legs. If he had 5-8 different coaches during his career and had to log heavy minutes for the majority of his career like Hakeem, it would probably be a different story.

Hakeem was playing 35.7 mpg when he was 36; Duncan hasn't played that many minutes a game since he was 27.

Is anyone here really gonna say that hasn't had an affect on his longevity? This absolutely has to be discussed when talking about Duncan's career. He was EXTREMELY fortunate to land in the situation he did.

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

Who gives a fukk about regular season numbers anyone who knows the game realizes how much better Olajuwon was then the admiral

I got into it with some poster last year because I said the Admiral was on of the most overrated players of the 90's.

All stats, no glory.


For a big man, do you remember any memorable playoff runs the Spurs had when Admiral was the main guy?I don't

I don't even remember any big playoff moments.All the C's in the 90's had better playoff runs/moments....from.. Ewing to Dream to Shaq

Hell...even Rik Smits showed up more when it counted.

He had awesome stats & a great wholesome image for the NBA to market...That's what I remember most about Admiral.

Duncan came in and immediately showed him how it was done

 

[duckbutta]

Duncan didn't win a ring as a rookie.

This is almost a coin flip argument. I think Hakeem's peak was better than Duncan's, but obviously Duncan's run lasted a little longer. Anybody saying Duncan's situation didn't heavily contribute to his longevity is kidding themselves.

Duncan's had the same all-time great coach his entire career and the best front office in the league as well. They've consistently put the right kind of talent around him and Parker and Ginobili's ascension took a lot of miles off his legs. If he had 5-8 different coaches during his career and had to log heavy minutes for the majority of his career like Hakeem, it would probably be a different story.

Hakeem was playing 35.7 mpg when he was 36; Duncan hasn't played that many minutes a game since he was 27.

Is anyone here really gonna say that hasn't had an affect on his longevity? This absolutely has to be discussed when talking about Duncan's career. He was EXTREMELY fortunate to land in the situation he did.

Consistently putting the right kind of talent around him

Avery Johnson is the right kind of talent

A young Tony Parker is the right kind of talent

Francisco Elson is the right kind of talent?

Devin Brown is the right kind of talent?

Speedy Claxton is the right time of talent?

Radoslav Nestoric is the right kind of talent?

Did anybody in this thread except the usual suspects watch the Spurs play before the last 5 years?

Tony Parker COULD NOT MAKE A 12 foot jumpshot until the middle of his career

Tony Parker could barely make free throws when he came into the league

You think Tony Parker and Manu become the level of player they ended up being without Tim Duncan

 

[ALonelyDad]

Duncan is great but many just ignore the great system he has around him..one of the best coaches of all time, two hof players in Parker/Ginobli, the Spurs have done a great job keeping a solid team around him. Hakeem would fit right in and would win as many.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Duncan, and its not as close as you guys are portraying. Hakeem is great but there is a straight up love affair with him on the coli. The man had incredible moves but he lost to Barkley Malone Robinson and others a lot. The 93 rockets won 55 games but lost to the ACTUALLY Better sonics... even in 95 the rockets were damn near 500 before the drexler trade. He had a lot of help when he got over the hump....


Duncan came in the league and won immediate and never fukkin stopped and has tier ZERO longevity...absolutely him

 

[Regular_P]

Consistently putting the right kind of talent around him

Avery Johnson is the right kind of talent

A young Tony Parker is the right kind of talent

Francisco Elson is the right kind of talent?

Devin Brown is the right kind of talent?

Speedy Claxton is the right time of talent?

Radoslav Nestoric is the right kind of talent?

Did anybody in this thread except the usual suspects watch the Spurs play before the last 5 years?

Tony Parker COULD NOT MAKE A 12 foot jumpshot until the middle of his career

Tony Parker could barely make free throws when he came into the league

You think Tony Parker and Manu become the level of player they ended up being without Tim Duncan

Ginobili was an All-Star by '05, Parker by '06. Who were the All-Stars Hakeem played with before Drexler got to Houston a decade into his career? Otis Thorpe and Vernon Maxwell?

Ralph Sampson for two seasons?

Kenny Smith?

We gonna act like Pop, Parker and Ginobili didn't save years of Duncan's career by keeping his minutes down?

 

[Luke Cage]

dream fell off kinda of quickly after he lost his speed and lift when he got older.

so for me it basically boils down to 10 years of hakeem or 19 years of duncan.

I'm taking Duncan.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Tony Parker COULD NOT MAKE A 12 foot jumpshot until the middle of his career

Tony Parker could barely make free throws when he came into the league

Why are you continuing to push these lies after I already exposed them?

But I thought Parker couldn't shoot though?

Let's take it a step further -

Parker was hitting 37% on total jumpers and Ginoboli was hitting 32% on jumpers in 2002/2003
Parker was hitting 34% on total jumpers and Ginoboli was hitting 32% on jumpers in 2003/2004
Parker was hitting 36% on total jumpers and Ginobili was hitting 38% on jumpers in 2004/2005.

Parker was hitting 36% on midrange jumpers (308 attempts) and Ginobili was hitting 24% on jumpers (37 attempts) in 2002/2003
Parker was hitting 36% on midrange jumpers (302 attempts) and Ginobili was hitting 33% on jumpers (86 attempts) in 2003/2004
Parker was hitting 40% on midrange jumpers (345 attempts) and Ginobili was hitting 28% on jumpers (71 attempts) in 2004/2005

So basically you're talking shyt about Parker not being able to hit shots outside of 12 feet in the first half of his career and you're talking shyt about 'Prime Manu' having to play with a PG that couldn't shoot, when in fact he was the one that couldn't shoot.

2002/2003 - 2.7 makes out of 3.5 free throw attempts - 75%
2003/2004 - 2.5 makes out of 3.7 free throw attempts - 70%
2004/2005 - 2.6 makes out of 4.0 free throw attempts - 65%

His attempts are so low, that even a few misses across an entire season can drastically alter the percentage.

 

[duckbutta]

Ginobili was an All-Star by '05, Parker by '06. Who were the All-Stars Hakeem played with before Drexler got to Houston a decade into his career? Otis Thorpe and Vernon Maxwell?

Ralph Sampson for two seasons?

Kenny Smith?

We gonna act like Pop, Parker and Ginobili didn't save years of Duncan's career by keeping his minutes down?

Seeing as how Tim played as big a part in all of their careers it is the least they could do

He was an all star? What does that mean? It means that they were voted in as a popularity contest

Tracy Mcgrady and Grant Hill got voted as all stars in seasons they barely played

Didn't Kobe get voted into the all star team this year?

I see you didn't answer the question of...Do Tony Parker and Manu have the careers they have without Timmy...?

And that is just two players...and as great as manu is and as much as I love him...he spent a chunk of his career not even playing enough minutes to qualify for the 6th man award...

 

[Regular_P]

Seeing as how Tim played as big a part in all of their careers it is the least they could do

He was an all star? What does that mean? It means that they were voted in as a popularity contest

Tracy Mcgrady and Grant Hill got voted as all stars in seasons they barely played

Didn't Kobe get voted into the all star team this year?

I see you didn't answer the question of...Do Tony Parker and Manu have the careers they have without Timmy...?

And that is just two players...and as great as manu is and as much as I love him...he spent a chunk of his career not even playing enough minutes to qualify for the 6th man award...

Parker and Ginobili have never started an All-Star game before. @ the thought of them winning a popularity contest.

Does Timmy have the longevity he has without those two? Answer that question.

Ginobili would have had much bigger numbers if he was the man on his own team. He came off the bench to sacrifice for the team and you're belitting his contributions?

You gonna act like Spurs fans haven't been calling Parker the best PG in the game since '07?