Eminem being white saved him from being relegated to the Redman, Ludacris, and E-40 tier of rappers

Westbama Heartthrob

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And that's on Black fans and rappers just as much as cacs :mjpls:

Notice how all these rappers put Em on this pedestal like Whut thee album to doc's the name ain't a better run that Em's whole career

Yet Red don't ever get nearly as high on top rapper lists compared to a cac rapping about shoving gerbils up his ass :francis:

Argue if you want, but all the cemented top rappers rap about street shyt. Jay, nas, pac, biggie, scarface, etc.

Every rapper that gets debated doesn't lean into it heavy. I.e. Black Thought, Andre 3000, etc.

And before you bring up "insert xyz" argument to discredit, keep in mind none of those criticisms can be levied against red, Luda, or 40 water. Yet they not considered top 5 lyricist by most. And it's strictly content and stylistic based. Not off bars, I promise :yeshrug:
 

Westbama Heartthrob

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Em hasn’t mattered in close to 2 decades. Why is this thread necessary in the year of our Lord 2025?
67.5 million monthly listeners on Spotify
6 of the most streamed rap albums of all time
Constantly listed as an influence and shouted out by legends
The benchmark against every white rapper, for better or for worse

But he ain't mattered in 2 decades :unimpressed:
 

SunZoo

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Bullshyt.

What separates Em from a lot of other rappers of his ilk, especially Redman and Luda is his substance and song writing.

As dope as both of those guys are with the similarities of comedic elements in their music, they do not have a lot of songs that speak to their humanity. The biggest reason Em gets as much love as he does has more to do with his vulnerability than just putting words together good. He made people care about him beyond the music, he made people feel something.
 

Abstract83

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I don't listen to Em much now. But I'll never forget when I first heard SSLP thru Em Show. Especially MMLP and his work with Royce that's when I took him serious as an MC. He just needs the right producer and slow down the flow.
 

Westbama Heartthrob

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Bullshyt.

What separates Em from a lot of other rappers of his ilk, especially Redman and Luda is his substance and song writing.

As dope as both of those guys are with the similarities of comedic elements in their music, they do not have a lot of songs that speak to their humanity. The biggest reason Em gets as much love as he does has more to do with his vulnerability than just putting words together good, he made people care about him beyond the music, he made people feel something.
I'll actually give you that

My rebuttal would be that humor is feeling something too. One is not inherently superior to the other but balancing both is a good way to be well rounded

Luda's attempt at being deep is respectful for the attempt. But the execution :huhldup:

Red wasn't known for straight up introspection in his prime, but he's a product of his time. Until guys like scarface and pac, being introspective wasn't a thing in rap. He couldve pivoted later in his career, but i think he just dont like dark or sad music. His least favorite album is dare iz a darkside cause of how it reminds him of his lowest point in life. Making more music about those low points just aint on his agenda

So it's a fair critique but we still gotta look at it in context
 

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Is this about Em's peak or after that? The reason he is in a different tier is that his peak was so higher than the others you've mentioned. Even after his fall down he is still a factor.

You can say he gained that popularity peak easy cause him being white, it's not wrong
 

SunZoo

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I'll actually give you that

My rebuttal would be that humor is feeling something too. One is not inherently superior to the other but balancing both is a good way to be well rounded

Luda's attempt at being deep is respectful for the attempt. But the execution :huhldup:

Red wasn't known for straight up introspection in his prime, but he's a product of his time. Until guys like scarface and pac, being introspective wasn't a thing in rap. He couldve pivoted later in his career, but i think he just dont like dark or sad music. His least favorite album is dare iz a darkside cause of how it reminds him of his lowest point in life. Making more music about those low points just aint on his agenda

So it's a fair critique but we still gotta look at it in context

The bold just makes the case for Em stronger then.

Brain Dammage for example.



- A legit well written song
- Vivid yet comedic imagery, the song almost creates a video in your mind.
- Based on real a traumatic event where he got beat up so bad he had brain swelling and had to re-learn how to do day to day functions

That is the balance you're talking about. So when people compare him to Luda, or even 'lyrical miracle' type MC's like Canibus/Chino and say if he was black he'd be ____, no he wouldn't because in his prime, he struck a perfect balance being a novelty while also expressing himself in a way that endured after the novelty wore off. And there are a lot more of records along those lines in his catalog than the 'gerbil' stuff.
 

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And no

He was handpicked by Jimmy, and can sustain a fan base

Because he was handpicked his singles are going to be pushed regardless of how they perform, in fact … they have to perform atrociously before they scale back any of the promotional push (Just Lose It, Bezerk)

The first 3 from that series of singles (by now you should recognize that Interscope’s business model leans on their acts reiterating the success of previous singles) were great song productions with unique character that was meant to crossover to wider audiences, and introduce them to his brand of work and thus a percentage of those exposed to the single will become a fan of the less single-like content that makes up the near cinematic -like dramatization of the rest of his catalog


There are so many more factors at play, largely industry and small amount of him having the skillset to back it up. He’s a viable brand, hence the fan base that exists when he is not on an album cycle promo-run

Don’t put your head in the sand


You wanna know why Eminem is Eminem … read the Drake lawsuit and apply that


The Coli has a natural naive tendency to think that everything is just organic, it’s not

Most of it isn’t


Still waiting for respectable discussion on here about a top 10 non-mainstream rapper list … it won’t happen though, because the mainstream consumer’s awareness is largely attuned to what it’s programmed to be tuned to


There’s a trillion songs out there and everyday millions more are made but you know the same 10 songs from the same 5 people and you think that’s the whole world view

No, that’s what the industry packaged up and sold you




This thread summarized: Jimmy Iovine, end of discussion

Also in regard to Eminem the young abused and alienated man who has natural interest in serial killer mindset (apparently his fondest pastime study) dumped all of that serial killer energy into vocabulary, syntax and linguistics

If he were born today whatever school he’s going to would have to keep an eye on him


shyt’s not organic but Eminem is a unique case and only a small portion of his success is based in skill rather than position, but it is all predicated on skill and that’s what makes it work

They’d have tried to plug others into the same machine

Big 3 music industry is designed to have 10-15 cash cows and a bunch of artists that are “in development” but realistically utilized for creative accounting efforts to minimize taxable revenue associated with their top acts (check network of their top acts all in the $200 million + range, now realize the label made a minimum of 5x more off of their career … each of those acts: Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Eminem, Drake, Katy Perry

All have generated billion + revenue

Need to stop thinking of this in such naive terms like someone just passed a demo got discovered and introduced music to the market that was loved by the masses

No album cycles, promo budgets

Look at the way they try to stylize Eminem’s logo to match Nine Inch Nails, they Nine Inch Nails to be so much bigger than they are, Jimmy must be really fond of Trent Reznor, he’s most successful in his industry position than his music - but I am outside of the target audience so they may be the biggest thing in the world to some
 
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