ESPN Ranks the Top 25 NBA Players

[god shamgod]

who cares about "point guard" Whos the better PLAYER?

What seperates Rose from the D-Wills, CP3, Rondo, Nash's of the world (besides the obvious talent) is that Rose has that Kobe-like Killer instinct, he's cut from the cloth of the old school, he works hard, and is damn near un-guardable.

these other nikkas is too busy tryna build there "brand" instead of their game..

I thought you were talkin about pg's

And Chris Paul>>>>Derrick Rose as a player he's better defender,shooter,passer,facilitator and more clutch.Rose jags ft's routinely

Lol @ "killer instinct" Chris paul has the same mentality and so does westbrook

People like rose's humbleness and attitude and overrate him cuz of it.I hate to say these things cuz that's my boy Im a bulls fan from chicago but it's true.Rose is tougher to guard cuz he's faster and bigger than paul is I'll give him that

 

[954UAlreadyknow]

Preps for Blake Griff hate

Lob City!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Long Live The Kane]

But Kobe isn't putting up 20-10 statlines like Dwight, Kevin Love, and Blake Griffin. Should he be behind all three of them because he can't do that? That's the thing, you're giving increased importance to a particular statline that Kobe can do and dismissing the ones that he can't do.

AGAIN...THE POINT ISN'T THE EXACT STATLINE ...obviously different positions have different responsibilities and thus put up different types of the stats....the point is that KOBE IS STILL PRODUCING AT AN ELITE LEVEL....He's still the best player at his position in the entire league (or at the very least 2nd because I know you'll swear to death Wade and maybe even Monte Ellis had better seasons than kobe last year too, hell give marshon brooks more shots he's prolly better than kobe...why not )...I brought it up because you threw Kobe in with Duncan and Garnett (and he's still damn good) with this nostalgia shyt, like he didn't just have an elite level production year last season...2% dip in fg% and all...it stands on it own, no nostalgia required

If you want a true ranking of where players are, give some of the other great players the same situation Kobe had (ultimate green light, 23 shot attempts a game, point guard responsibilities) and they can match what he did.

Rose had all of these things...didn't have a better year than kobe last year

If all other things are equal, I would take pre-injury Rose over current Kobe and it wouldn't be a tough decision. He's younger, quicker, gets to the basket better, shoots 3's better, passes better. Kobe's just beats him in shot volume. The only thing that makes the selection tough is Rose's ACL injury and the uncertainty that he'll be the same player but with each year that ticks by with Kobe, there is uncertainty with him as well.

When and what is a "pre-injury" rose exactly?...cause he was in and out of the line-up all year last season, missing like a third of it with various injuries last year...and was never really the player he was his MVP year the entire season..and did not have a better season than Kobe..so in a ranking list that's considering players most recent season of work, with a look forward to the one immediately on the way...you're taking a Rose from 2010-2011, that didn't exist in the 2011-2012, tore his ACL and may or may not ever be the same ever...but certainly not this season....gotcha, makes sense in pyscho kobe hater world...in reality, not so much

 

[Bilz]

AGAIN...THE POINT ISN'T THE EXACT STATLINE ...obviously different positions have different responsibilities and thus put up different types of the stats....the point is that KOBE IS STILL PRODUCING AT AN ELITE LEVEL....He's still the best player at his position in the entire league (or at the very least 2nd because I know you'll swear to death Wade and maybe even Monte Ellis had better seasons than kobe last year too, hell give marshon brooks more shots he's prolly better than kobe...why not )...I brought it up because you threw Kobe in with Duncan and Garnett with this nostalgia shyt, like he didn't just have an elite level production year last season...2% dip in fg% and all...it stands on it own, no nostalgia required




Rose had all of these things...didn't have a better year than kobe last year



When and what is a "pre-injury" rose exactly?...cause he was in and out of the line-up all year last season, missing like a third of it with various injuries last year...and was never really the player he was his MVP year the entire season..and did not have a better season than Kobe..so in a ranking list that's considering players most recent season of work, with a look forward to the one immediately on the way...you're taking a Rose from 2010-2011, that didn't exist in the 2011-2012, tore his ACL and may or may not ever be the same ever...but certainly not this season....gotcha, makes sense in pyscho kobe hater world...in reality, not so much

Um, the ranking put Kobe at 6th. It doesn't do any good to argue that he is putting up "elite" stats when his ranking puts him in elite company. The people he is being ranked up against are elite as well. And if you want it to be all about stats, maybe Kobe put up better raw stats than Rose, but Kevin Love put up better stats than Kobe. Do you want Love to take Rose's spot ahead of Kobe? Or do you want to waffle with that logic and say that Kobe should be ahead of both just because you like him better?

Please re-read my Kobe/KG/Duncan comment before making any more comments on it. I'm not saying they're equal, I'm not saying they're all completely , I am saying that they are ranked higher based on name/hardware/reputation/etc. That is all. No matter how good someone is, they can still be overrated. All 3 of them can obviously still play but at a lower level than they peaked at and a lower level than they're being listed at.

How justified is all of this injury talk anyway? Rose is 23 and coming off an ACL injury with no setbacks. Kobe is 34 and claims his knees are bone on bone If we're going to question what Rose can still do, we need to do the same for Kobe.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

EducatedBrothaFromTheBank don't feed the troll.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

double

 

[HiphopRelated]

you have to look at quality of shots, Kobe Bryant IS THE ONLY PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY, to have to take shots against 3-4 defenders because teams are SCARED TO DEATH of the black mamba. EVERY SHOT in his career had atleast 2 guys on him.

Durant get's spoonfed open shots by his top notch penetrating PG playing pick and roll all game. Imagine Kobe Bryant getting all the open looks KD get's, he would shoot 65% easily and average 42 a night.

Lebron is 6'10 279, runs a 4.1 40 and has a 56inch vertical. Imagine Kobe with those measurements, he would break 50 a night easy. Not to mention lebron plays with sure fire hall of famers like d wade, chris bosh, and ray allen. While Kobe plays with scrubs like Pau Gasol, Smush Parker, Andrew Bynum, and prime shaq. He's also coached by scrub ass phil jackson and his kobe bryant stopper offense.

You put kobe on that 2011 bulls team and they win 70 games and the title. Kobe would kill to play with stars like boozer, deng and Noah and be coached by Thibbs

jplayadagawd

 

[HiphopRelated]

Dog you aint gotta post that game I watched it live on channel 9

Were talkin about a cat who averaged 12 assists for a season and 2.5 turnovers a game(rose has never came close to double digit assists ONCE) someone who dropped 33 points and 14 assists in a playoff game who hits his clutch ft's and can hit mid range jumpers,3's the whole 9.Paul is the prototype pg

Chris paul would have joakim noah puttin up 15-16 a game and boozer lookin like the utah jazz all star booz.Rose my boy I've watched him since simeon he isnt better a pg than rondo,d will,paul or nash

you spitting blasphemy to some of these cats but it's truth

 

[Long Live The Kane]

Um, the ranking put Kobe at 6th. It doesn't do any good to argue that he is putting up "elite" stats when his ranking puts him in elite company. The people he is being ranked up against are elite as well. And if you want it to be all about stats, maybe Kobe put up better raw stats than Rose, but Kevin Love put up better stats than Kobe. Do you want Love to take Rose's spot ahead of Kobe? Or do you want to waffle with that logic and say that Kobe should be ahead of both just because you like him better?

Actually yes, I'd have less of a problem with that than a Rose ranking that defies all logic...I don't even agree with Love's current ranking, and have already said as much in the thread:

Don't really have a problem with Love's ranking...don't necessarily agree with it...but his production warrants it, definitely...just means I and everybody else will now judge him based on that level of expectation from now on...and they'll be no excuses because he's getting widely heralded as a top level elite player in the league now

.Don't really have a problem with it because it at least makes some kind of sense...definitely more sense than Rose rising in the rankings versus his spot last year, despite having a worse season in every regard, being hampered by and missing a third of the season because of injuries while other players fell down the list as a result of nagging injuries, and projecting to miss a big chunk and another chunk recovering towards 100% after a major injury

How justified is all of this injury talk anyway? Rose is 23 and coming off an ACL injury with no setbacks. Kobe is 34 and claims his knees are bone on bone If we're going to question what Rose can still do, we need to do the same for Kobe.

For a list that's based wholly on last season's performance and projecting forward only as far as this upcoming season....you're asking me how justified is talk about injuries that saw Rose miss a third of last season and an ACL tear this summer that'll see him miss a big chunk of this one (last estimate for return I heard was the All Star break)....and has his effectiveness as a young player primarily reliant on explosiveness in question even when he does return? In comparison to the knee kobe had the german procedure done on two summers ago, and played all of last season on?

 

[Bilz]

Actually yes, I'd have less of a problem with that than a Rose ranking that defies all logic...I don't even agree with Love's current ranking, and have already said as much...but don't really have a problem with it because it at least makes some kind of sense...definitely more sense than Rose rising in the rankings versus his spot last year, despite having a worse season in every regard, being hampered by and missing a third of the season because of injuries while other players fell down the list as a result of nagging injuries, and projecting to miss a big chunk and another chunk recovering towards 100% after a major injury





For a list that's based wholly on last season's performance and projecting forward only as far as this upcoming season....you're asking me how justified is talk about injuries that saw Rose miss a third of last season and an ACL tear this summer that'll see him miss a big chunk of this one (last estimate for return I heard was the All Star break)....and has his effectiveness as a young player primarily reliant on explosiveness in question even when he does return? In comparison to the knee kobe had the german procedure done on two summers ago, and played all of last season on?

I think you're just too focused on Rose honestly. Even if he loses a step, he should still be quicker and more explosive than an older jump shooting Kobe. That's why I brought up Kobe's age and self-proclaimed knee issues. If you're going to question Rose's future abilities, you have to do it for others as well.

Kobe is a year older and since the Lakers got better at two positions and added bench depth, it is assumed he will be taking a lighter load, playing fewer minutes, taking fewer shots, etc. Given all that, should he be ahead of guys like Westbrook that are trending upward? Even if you want to argue that Kobe should be ahead of an injured Rose, there are players BELOW Kobe in that ranking that should not be below him when you consider all of the other details.

An issue can be created with any of the rankings if you try hard enough. The question is, why would you want to? All of these guys who voted are playing favorites just like you are.

 

[K-ZOE]

I'm not gonna argue about players that haven't played in decades (I already covered Nash, go back and read), because like I said, THERE'S NO PLACE FOR THAT TERM IN TODAY'S GAME - THE POSITION HAS EVOLVED, it's a word that has been lost in translation and basically it holds no meaning in measuring PGs of today. If you look at the first statement of mine in my previous post, you'll see I put "At his core"; scouts compared his game to other 'pure-PGs' in the NBA at the time and said he could easily adapt between a 'scoring mentality and passing mentality'. Nothing has changed since then, except for the fact he was drafted by a lottery team and he has been REQUIRED to pick up added x-amount of workload, ever since, in order for them to be successful. If the Celtics drafted him, he wouldn't have had the workload he's had the last 3-4 seasons, with Pierce, Allen and Garnett, he would be more of a facilitator. He wouldn't have been able to do that on the Bulls. A criticism of mine as well as other Bulls fans on the forum were that this season he was too mindful of trying to get his team-mates involved early and plays would run through Rip Hamilton; leaving the offense stagnant and leading to nowhere. That's because the offense runs smoother and more efficient when he has a scoring mentality - opening up passing lanes, drawing double-teams, hedges. Because the Bulls don't have the offensive-weapons to run it any other way.

The '11 Miami heat series was evidence of this - Heat solely focused on shutting him down and the Bulls didn't know what to do.

The high school comparison(s) were that Rose is still the player, ain't nothing changed. He still plays the PG position, like he has always done.



Of course there's no unquestionable proof, it's a hypothetical statement, a situation we shall never know. But don't be this dumb, use your head.

I don't need to tell you that Rose in his rookie season led his team to a seven game series against the reigning NBA champions (Celtics) in '08. I don't need to tell you that Rose tied Kareem's record for most points by a rookie in his playoff debut.

***Rondo's #'s vs Lakers (07-08 finals = champions) - 37% FG, 6 assists and 9 points
Rondo's #'s vs Magic (08-09 second round) - 37%, 8 assists and 14 points
Rondo's #'s vs Lakers (09-10 finals) - 45% FG, 7 assists and 13 points
Rondo's #'s vs Heat (10-11 second round) - 44%, 7 assists and 10 points

Hardly #'s that jump out at the page at you and certainly aren't #'s that suggest Rose isn't capable of producing. You're gonna sit there and tell me that all those seasons, Celtics wouldn't have had a better chance at winning championships if they had Rose instead of Rondo?


HE CAN PLAY BOTH ROLES!



This is why we go back to my statement of - the term has been LOST IN TRANSLATION. First Rose's game is reminiscent of a 'pure point guard' to now he is the TOTAL opposite - why is that? It's not like those attributes of his have suddenly been thrown in the bushes, NAW, like I said, a different role has been required from him for the Bulls. And again, if he was on that Celtics team, his ROLE would be entirely different, he wouldn't be averaging 17-20 shots a game with Garnett, Allen and Pierce. He wouldn't be averaging 25 points a game. His PPG would be down and his APG would be up. How he's looked at RIGHT NOW would be entirely different, if he was on the Celtics team since his league inception - in terms of being a 'pure point guard'.

Just like life - different situations require different attributes/roles. Just because they're not on show the majority of the time, doesn't mean they're not there.

Did not read this crap.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Did not read this crap.

Oh, you read it all right, you just weren't expecting your shyt to be swatted into the third row.

 

[Long Live The Kane]

I think you're just too focused on Rose honestly. Even if he loses a step, he should still be quicker and more explosive than an older jump shooting Kobe. That's why I brought up Kobe's age and self-proclaimed knee issues. If you're going to question Rose's future abilities, you have to do it for others as well.

Kobe is a year older and since the Lakers got better at two positions and added bench depth, it is assumed he will be taking a lighter load, playing fewer minutes, taking fewer shots, etc. Given all that, should he be ahead of guys like Westbrook that are trending upward? Even if you want to argue that Kobe should be ahead of an injured Rose, there are players BELOW Kobe in that ranking that should not be below him when you consider all of the other details.

An issue can be created with any of the rankings if you try hard enough. The question is, why would you want to? All of these guys who voted are playing favorites just like you are.

So in other words, you're conceding you spent the last how many posts arguing a case for Rose at 5 on that list that makes no fukking sense whatsoever...but don't really care as long as you can plug any random player there other than Kobe, and rinse and repeat the process all over again? It's like you have no actual stance or tangible opinion at all, everything is in a quantum state of flux until you can figure out which way something can be used as a stance against kobe ....in a world where kobe doesn't exist, would you take Russy based on last season and projecting forward towards this one over Rose?

 

[Bilz]

So in other words, you're conceding you spent the last how many posts arguing a case for Rose at 5 on that list that makes no fukking sense whatsoever...but don't really care as long as you can plug any random player there other than Kobe, and rinse and repeat the process all over again? It's like you have no actual stance or tangible opinion at all, everything is in a quantum state of flux until you can figure out which way something can be used as a stance against kobe ....in a world where kobe doesn't exist, would you take Russy based on last season and projecting forward towards this one over Rose?

No, I have no problem with Rose at #5. There really aren't many people better than him and he was the MVP just a season ago. Maybe he won't be quite as good after this injury but there is no reason to think he won't still be an elite player given his youth, work ethic, and previous accomplishments. CP3, Wade, Kobe, Dwight all have injuries as well and their future isn't guaranteed either but you don't seem to question their placement or how the injuries will affect their futures. You are just hand picking evidence that supports Kobe and rejecting evidence that doesn't. To be honest, I'm sure other people that voted were doing the same shyt with their own favorites and enemies.

As for Rose vs Russ, I think a great case can be made for either player and I could really care less if one is ranked over the other. Either one is better than a 34 yr old Kobe.

 

[Thegospel]

Dog you aint gotta post that game I watched it live on channel 9

Were talkin about a cat who averaged 12 assists for a season and 2.5 turnovers a game(rose has never came close to double digit assists ONCE) someone who dropped 33 points and 14 assists in a playoff game who hits his clutch ft's and can hit mid range jumpers,3's the whole 9.Paul is the prototype pg

Chris paul would have joakim noah puttin up 15-16 a game and boozer lookin like the utah jazz all star booz.Rose my boy I've watched him since simeon he isnt better a pg than rondo,d will,paul or nash

No nikka. That game needs to be posted along with the other games where guys like Westbrook and deron and tony Parker have gotten in his ass. Paul
Is easily the most overrated nikka in the league. Top 5 and never seen a conf finals ever? Lmao! Rondo, Parker, Russ and Deron AND rose all have. Clippers won't this year either. bytch nikka was lettin mike Conley get off in round 1. nikka Please!