Establishment Dems are getting themselves into era-defining trouble

[the cac mamba]

Heck I've seen you get more conservative since you graduated.

:jaypatr: could be true

 

[Pressure]

They are winning elections off old voters, people who are anti-Republican and people who've submitted to the 2 party system.
The problem is, younger independent voters don't have much reason (outside of their being no alternative) to become Democrats. They are only winning because young people feel disenfranchised. I'd personally love to see a viable third party.

Independent voters tilt moderate.

This requires those young voters to go to democratic primaries, which often registers you as a democrat. What motivation does a young voter, who isn't registered as a democrat have to go vote in their primaries (if the party isn't emphasizing a platform values what young people care about)? Especially when the democrats have a track record of pushing old establishment candidates?

It's a two party system.

Their incentive, it's easier to win a primary in New York with 3% turnout than it is to win a general with 38%+ as a 3rd party voter. Shout out to Bernie

 

[Professor Emeritus]

No one has bribed the voters.

They sure as hell do when those voters are superdelegates.

In the case in the OP the Democratic Party is explicitly bribing the vendors.

They also work to ensure massive cash advantages for establishment candidates which is as close to legal bribery of voters as you can get.

And that put their entire machine on tilt towards the establishment candidate in every other way they can, as was ably demonstrated in the 2016 primaries and as has been threatened against AOC in her next election and in many other cases where the challenger knows they will have an uphill battle against the machine's resources every step of the way.

 

[Pressure]

The primary complaint I keep seeing is that establishment democrats are okay with the status quo.

So, unless you kill them, they die, or you vote them out what incentive do they have to change when they're already in safe seats and getting the status quo results you claim they desire?

 

[Pressure]

They sure as hell do when those voters are superdelegates.

This is so fukking dishonest.

Superdelegates have nothing to do with congressional or senate elections.

 

[Hood Critic]

Isn't a third party going to just split the left-leaning vote and give every major election to the GOP?

.

Both parties are moving further to their respective sides away from the middle, a third party will end up encompassing subsets of the two existing, such as democratic moderates and never-Trumpers joining forces.

 

[Pressure]

Y'all superal liberal coastal guys really need to bounce around the country. It's not as liberal as you imagine.

Word to @the cac mamba

 

[Pressure]

I'd rather you run/vote 3rd party than not run/vote at all.

At least you're engaged.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

This is so fukking dishonest.

Superdelegates have nothing to do with congressional or senate elections.

I didn't say they did. If you seriously believe I was trying to convince you that superdelegates vote in Congressional races.

This is just more diversion and juelzing on your part - out of my entire post on how establishment dems happily tilt races, you ignore everything else to post THAT?

How about the fact that I've called your attention to the OP numerous times already, and you KEEP avoiding the fact that the establishment Dems are openly titling the race in order to bring up every other bullshyt excuse you can. Over and over you claim the establishment has no need to tilt the race WHILE YOU HAPPILY IGNORE THAT THE OP CITES THE ESTABLISHMENT DEMS OPENLY DECLARING THAT THEY WILL TILT THE RACE.

Y'all superal liberal coastal guys really need to bounce around the country. It's not as liberal as you imagine.

Word to @the cac mamba

And now you just ignored the other half of the OP.

What's the use of even participating in a thread if you're just going to plug your ears and pretend that all the facts cited in the thread don't actually exist.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Y'all superal liberal coastal guys really need to bounce around the country. It's not as liberal as you imagine.

Word to @the cac mamba

this! i know i live in a "liberal bubble" but in the same conversation where we may talk social this/that, the same people will bytch about cali's taxes, inefficient spending, overregulation, etc.

to say AOC will be the moderate view in 10-20 years is laughable, the move right started with nixon, went to warp speed under reagan and bush senior, continued thru clinton and is where we're at now, maybe a bit further right, nearing 50 years of movement....yet the AOC type people who are currently the US's extreme left are supposed to be the median view in 10-20 years? :swaggywhat: not at all, especially not with a potential 2021-2025 being spent under trump or biden

 

[Pressure]

This is just more diversion and juelzing on your part - out of my entire post on how establishment dems happily tilt races, you ignore everything else to post THAT?

Superdelegates have never shifted a democratic election / changed the votes / casted the deciding vote.

Low voter turnout on the other hand
.

What's the use of even participating in a thread if you're just going to plug your ears and pretend that all the facts cited in the thread don't actually exist.

Because my point has and always remains that voter apathy causes voters more harm than anything else. We can criticize money disadvantages, the DNC supporting people in primaries, but we can go through a variety of state and local elections and see that voter apathy there without any of mechanisms you're citing in place.

Ironically, these national elections have higher turnout.


If you don't want politicians to "stack the deck" vote in politicians who won't.

 

[Oville]

What will drive the split further I feel will be due to three reasons:

1. More independent media which often provides younger and more progressive minded voters with more of an outlet for news than has ever been offered in the past.

2. People coming to the realization more and more that there are spectrums to ideology and that differing opinions and values within the leftist spectrum of politics (as well as the right) are becomi less reconcilable.

3. The two party system is the biggest obstructing force in our politics today. If our congress were further sub divided we'd probably have more of a chance to get shyt like climate changed passed. However, due to the fact that each party only has one party to compete with, you have fukks like Mitch McConnell blatantly obstructing shyt that should receive bipartisan support just so he can game public perception to make the otherside weak.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

yea, i'm very much over the whole concept of leftists dems complaining about moderate dems...the whole political system needs an overhaul, whether it's a parliamentary or at least a viable, well represented 3rd party, term limits in the legislative and judiciary branches, logical district maps, election day as a paid holiday, automatic voter registration, etc. a whole bunch of shyt needs to change, not just hoping the vast coalition that is the dem party moves left

 

[Pressure]

this! i know i live in a "liberal bubble" but in the same conversation where we may talk social this/that, the same people will bytch about cali's taxes, inefficient spending, overregulation, etc.

to say AOC will be the moderate view in 10-20 years is laughable, the move right started with nixon, went to warp speed under reagan and bush senior, continued thru clinton and is where we're at now, maybe a bit further right, nearing 50 years of movement....yet the AOC type people who are currently the US's extreme left are supposed to be the median view in 10-20 years? :swaggywhat: not at all, especially not with a potential 2021-2025 being spent under trump or biden

I dont see it either. I live in Charlotte. I've lived in SF and I spend a lot of time in Seattle.

I work in tech. For a liberal company. And even my coworkers consider AOC to be waaaaay out to the left.

"Someone has to pay for this shyt. "

 

[Formerly Black Trash]

the problem with articles like this is ignoring how people become more conservative as they age...yes, there are social freedoms/liberties and a care for the environment that will likely not perish as principles for millennials as we age, but fiscal conservatism, as you grow more attached to what you've worked for and wanting to move ahead, will likely rear its head, especially with gen z who is starting to surface more competitive, individualistic, conservative traits than millennials. kinda jumping the gun to think the average today is what it will be tomorrow, i'm sure the boomers getting high and fukking all over the place in the 60's/70's never thought they'd be the people to ruin the economy for generations to come

That shift won’t come up if old nikkas is broke