Ethiopian Airlines crashes on way to Kenya

[RealAssanova]

When an aircraft is in IMC (instrumental meterological conditions) whereby pilots are relying primarily on flight instruments...it’s very easy to lose focus of what’s actually happening, become disoriented and inadvertently put yourself and the aircraft in a much difficult position than it actually already was.

Instructors used to always teach us not to rely so heavily on our instruments as they can be misleading and sometimes not even work.

Whenever i used to fly during the day, i was always told to look further out to the horizon and always reference it and use less of the instruments unless required to do so.

AF447 pilots couldn’t tell whether the plane was actually in a nose up attitude or nose down one and were relying on its failed instruments.

Pilots were also found not to be adequately trained on how to recover from a stall.

 

[FaTaL]

When an aircraft is in IMC (instrumental meterological conditions) whereby pilots are relying primarily on flight instruments...it’s very easy to lose focus of what’s actually happening, become disoriented and inadvertently put yourself and the aircraft in a much difficult position than it actually already was.

Instructors used to always teach us not to rely so heavily on our instruments as they can be misleading and sometimes not even work.

Whenever i used to fly during the day, i was always told to look further out to the horizon and always reference it and use less of the instruments unless required to do so.

AF447 pilots couldn’t tell whether the plane was actually in a nose up attitude or nose down one and were relying on its failed instruments.

Pilots were also found not to be adequately trained on how to recover from a stall.

What about flying in pitch dark, aren’t you solely depending on your instruments?

 

[RealAssanova]

What about flying in pitch dark, aren’t you solely depending on your instruments?

That's the tricky thing. Night flying you have to worry about fatigue, lack of visual references and the heavy reliance of instruments. 1 wrong situation coupled with all those 3 factors and the pilots may find themselves in a rapidly escalating situation.

 

[Reality]

1. To say something like that is absolutely absurd. There are well over 5000 ICAO registered airlines all over the world. The U.S. has 3 main global carriers in United, Delta and American. Southwest & Jetblue don't fly across overseas. 3/5000 = 0.0006%. The math is self-explanatory. That and not every U.S. carrier flies to everywhere in the world. There are also many impeccable airlines all over the world. (ie. Qantas, Lufthansa, Cathay)

2. There are many morning flights that depart north america for europe and vice versa (7am, 8am, 9am). Middle eastern carriers such as emirates have a huge overnight departure bank whereby hundreds of it's flights leave for north america, europe and asia from dubai. (ie. EK204 departs DXB for JFK at 2:30am dubai local time). Also, the airfrance flight was due to pitot-static blockage and incorrect pilot inputs due to erroneous readings from the altimeter and airspeed indicator from said pitot-static tube.

3. Having flown multiple times solo in cold weather, i can tell you that isn't true. Infact, cold weather tends to be the best for aircraft performance and has a smoother air mass with little to no winds/turbulence. Commercial wise, aircrafts must undergo de-icing if the weather is severe and has the characteristics for ice build-up. Also again, there are hundreds and hundreds of late night flights all over the world.

4. That wasn't a regional carrier but rather South Korea's national flag carrier and one of the world's leading airlines in Korean Air. Also, going back to my first point in #1, not every airline serves smaller hubs for a variety of reasons. As such, you may be forced to take a regional airline.

5. Hundreds of brand new aircraft are delivered to airlines all over the world daily. A380 when first released never had any major issues (apart from the qantas one which occured way after). A350 same thing. New aircraft. New design. New technologies. New way of flying. 0 issues thus far.

1. Agree with you - but if i'm choosing between TAP or Air France and Delta to get to Europe, I'm picking Delta 10/10 unless there's a significant difference in price
2. Again, I agree - I still take early AM flights naturally, I just try to avoid doing it. I think your characterization of the Air France crash is way too generous to the pilots.
3. My comment about the cold weather wasn't about plane performance as much as cold weather creating a new situation / judgment call to be made by crew. On two separate occasions in Europe I've had takeoffs delayed for de-icing. One was late and involved retaxiing (probably out of an abundance of caution). I just like to avoid that situation altogether if possible.
4. I stand corrected (was getting confused typing it up). Low key that's even more terrifying though.
5. Again, I agree with you and recognize this, but I'm talking reducing risk at the margins.

 

[Reality]

The reason this happened was because of a pitot-static blockage. When this occurs, you get the opposite readings on your altimeter and airspeed indicator. Normally, they both work in tandem and move relative to the motion of flight. However in this particular case, the pilots were being told they were losing altitude and therefore increased the power and altitude and inadvertently entered into irrevocable stall.

When you are flying over the atlantic ocean in the middle of the night, there is no outside horizon to verify if you're wings are level but an artificial horizon and you have spatial disorientation...those are all ingredients for a terrible and impending disaster.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but someone in the cabin could have put a cup of water on their tray and known the plane was effectively stalling and going to crash, correct? One of the pilots also kept pulling back on the stick out of fright despite confirming that he wasn't doing so to the rest of the crew - only to have the captain freak out when he realized this was happening. Have you read the cockpit transcripts? shyt was pure panic-induced fukkery as far as I can tell.

Or American carriers aren't going to quickly dump on an American manufacturer. There has to be alot of politics in something like this.

Trump administration is NOT the administration to rely on to make a call in the interest of public safety on this. Trump's defense secretary used to be a head honcho at Boeing - calls are being made.

 

[MikelArteta]

9-month-old baby latest Canadian identified in Ethiopian Airlines crash

 

[Creflo ½ Dollar]

737 max is being grounded all over Europe..,


America like fukk that we got to keep making that money...

To be fair, I think America has the most 737maxes in service so it would hurt us more.

 

[MikelArteta]

737 max is being grounded all over Europe..,


America like fukk that we got to keep making that money...

To be fair, I think America has the most 737maxes in service so it would hurt us more.

Yep not grounded in Canada as well

Two places that Boeing has alot of jobs

 

[RealAssanova]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but someone in the cabin could have put a cup of water on their tray and known the plane was effectively stalling and going to crash, correct? One of the pilots also kept pulling back on the stick out of fright despite confirming that he wasn't doing so to the rest of the crew - only to have the captain freak out when he realized this was happening. Have you read the cockpit transcripts? shyt was pure panic-induced fukkery as far as I can tell.

If the captain, who was resting at the time, had no idea what was going on until it was too late then i doubt any passenger or flight attendant would have either.

Natural tendency inclines us to push up when you sense the plane is going down. However 2 things were critically wrong with this:

1. Because of the pitot-static tube blockage, the pilots were given false information and were being told the plane was descending when in actuality it wasn't. It was climbing. So naturally, one pilot climbed to pull the plane up thus further aggravating the stall.

2. In the recovery of a stall, you MUST push the nose down which breaks the stall, apply power, let the airspeed come back up then pull the nose up and maintain level flight. I flew cessna's and was trained on both power on (engine running but slightly reduced RPM) and power off (engine cut off) stalls and recovery. Hands down, power on stalls was the absolute worst and most pronounced. More aggressive, quicker rate of descent, wing drop, easy to enter into a spin/dive. If you do not recover QUICKLY AND with the correct techniques, you are done.

Boeing has stick shakers on the control yolks of their aircraft which vibrates and lets the pilots know they are entering into a stall. I'm not so sure what airbus has.

 

[NoMorePie]

This is what I felt a few days ago when on the 737. Close to descent it suddenly tilted downward. It didnt feel as if the pilot did it purposefully, did not feel natural at all.. And it was very close to the ocean as well as we closed in on west palm beach.

 

[CJ]

Wife was just on a flight to BC via West Jet in the Max 8. She just landed. 30 minutes ago same West Jet announces they are grounding their Max fleet, while 4 flights were still airbourne. Hers being one of them.

 

[Soundbwoy]

Wife was just on a flight to BC via West Jet in the Max 8. She just landed. 30 minutes ago same West Jet announces they are grounding their Max fleet, while 4 flights were still airbourne. Hers being one of them.

yall should sue

 

[MikelArteta]

Us the only country still flying those kill planes

 

[Everydayimshufflin]

If the captain, who was resting at the time, had no idea what was going on until it was too late then i doubt any passenger or flight attendant would have either.

Natural tendency inclines us to push up when you sense the plane is going down. However 2 things were critically wrong with this:

1. Because of the pitot-static tube blockage, the pilots were given false information and were being told the plane was descending when in actuality it wasn't. It was climbing. So naturally, one pilot climbed to pull the plane up thus further aggravating the stall.

2. In the recovery of a stall, you MUST push the nose down which breaks the stall, apply power, let the airspeed come back up then pull the nose up and maintain level flight. I flew cessna's and was trained on both power on (engine running but slightly reduced RPM) and power off (engine cut off) stalls and recovery. Hands down, power on stalls was the absolute worst and most pronounced. More aggressive, quicker rate of descent, wing drop, easy to enter into a spin/dive. If you do not recover QUICKLY AND with the correct techniques, you are done.

Boeing has stick shakers on the control yolks of their aircraft which vibrates and lets the pilots know they are entering into a stall. I'm not so sure what airbus has.

How do you know all of this information?

 

[Malcolmxxx_23]

How do you know all of this information?

Hes a pilot