Fact-Checking the Foreign-Policy Debate

brick james

John piffington
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
1,876
Reputation
179
Daps
4,007
Fam, Slate said "we couldn't find where we go this number...so we googled some shyt and came up with a number thats not even half of what he said"

How dense can you be?

shyt on the GOP all you want, but all this reveals is...very little.

I thought that you agreed that the number was 137, but you were ok with donald trump saying 200 billion because you were caping for donald trump. Now I know you are just retarded... most economists agree that illegal immigrants have a net benefit for the economy, but even if we disregard what most economists say, by what metric could 12,000,000 people cost the united states 200,000,000,000 a year? How is that even remotely possible? There are no facts on the internet to support this in any way, shape, or form

I know this is asking a lot, but please use some common sense. he made up a number that was blatantly false just admit that we are right for criticizing him and move on
 

Jello Biafra

A true friend stabs you in the front
Supporter
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
46,184
Reputation
4,958
Daps
120,924
Reppin
Behind You
Fact checkers will have a field day with Fiorina
Her answer on Russia, for instance, was bizarre.

The Sixth Fleet is already huge, and it's hard to say why adding to its capabilities would intimidate Putin — after all, America has enough nuclear weapons pointed at Russia to level the country thousands of times over. Her proposal for more military exercises in the Baltics seemed odd in light of the fact that President Obama is already conducting military exercises in the Baltics. And the US already has around 40,000 troops stationed in Germany, so it's hard to say what good "a few thousand" more would do. And pushing on a missile defense system in Poland is a very long-term solution to a very current problem. In total, Fiorina's laundry list of proposals sure sounded like a plan, but on inspection, it's hard to see why any of them would convince Putin to change course.

Her immigration answer was also odd to anyone who knew the issue's recent history. It's true Obama didn't immediately push immigration reform when he took office, but it was his top priority after reelection, and he spent a solid year trying to make the Senate's comprehensive immigration-reform bill — the one crafted, in part, by Sen. Marco Rubio— into law. That legislation was stopped by Republicans in the House of Representatives, not by the Democrat in the White House. "Send me a comprehensive immigration reform bill in the next few months," Obama begged in 2013, "and I will sign it right away."

Or take her biggest applause line of the night: a riff on the Planned Parenthood tapes that set conservative Twitter afire. "I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, it's heart beating, it's legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain."

The only problem? Nothing like that happens in the Planned Parenthood tapes. As Sarah Kliff, who has watched all the tapes, wrote, "either Fiorina hasn't watched the Planned Parenthood videos or she is knowingly misrepresenting the footage."

This has become something of a habit for Fiorina, who has a notable facility for delivering answers that thrill conservatives but fall apart under close examination. In a recent interview with Katie Couric, for instance, Fiorina delivered a four-minute riff on climate change that the National Review enthused "shows how to address the left on climate change." The only problem, as David Roberts pointed out, was that every single thing she said in it was wrong.

But if presidential campaigns were decided by fact checkers, Al Gore would have won in a landslide. Fiorina is, for now, able to do what her competitors aren't: command a stage, speak in specifics, project knowledge, and elicit roars from a crowd. She's a political outsider in a campaign that favors outsiders, an orthodox conservative at a moment when Republicans are terrified of Donald Trump's heterodoxies, and a woman in a year when most Republicans think Hillary Clinton's main advantage is her gender. And she's now won two debates against the most talented Republican field in a generation.

Fiorina is going to be a force to be reckoned with, even if it's going to leave fact checkers and policy analysts pulling their hair out.
This video in heavy rotation on TV is all it will take to send Fiorina right back to the bushes:
 

Jello Biafra

A true friend stabs you in the front
Supporter
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
46,184
Reputation
4,958
Daps
120,924
Reppin
Behind You
Where is the misleading shyt here? Look at this that @tru_m.a.c posted...its ridiculus.





Trump say $200 Billion...and its "wrong" because someone googled a number that said it could be $137 billion? ...WOW...BIG difference there :stopitslime:

Trump talking about bringing casinos? Really? Really? Who gives a fukk.

Huckabee didn't lie about Hillary. ...the FBI IS looking into her emails.

Fiorina did embellish those abortion videos. But unless you've watched them, you can't say they were far off.

Fiorina bragging about HP? Really? She's the CEO. Of course she amps up the size of the company.

Rubio lied about climate regulations? Really? He's NOT lying. The US doesn't control the fukking "air" if they do it alone.

Lindsey Graham didn't mention tax increases? Word? That wasn't even his fukking point!




See this is the shyt i'm talking about.

There are flat out lies, then there are things politicians say to make points...this is a VERY lazy article.
:what:
Huckabee said Hillary was being investigated by the FBI, the truth is that the FBI is investigating whether anyone in government sent her an confidential documents. The implication is that there is a criminal investigation targeting Clinton which there is not.

Fiorina flat out lied about those PP vids as multiple people who actually watched them has pointed out. Her implication is that PP is scooping out viable fetuses and leaving them flailing about on tables while talking about "keep it alive so we can make some cash off of it's organs!".

Fiorina lied about what happened at HP in the debate just like she has been lying about it since she got fired. If she actually told the truth about her time there she would be eviscerated by her own party's voters. So by "embellishing" she gives this illusion that she accomplished great things at HP and her firing was not because of how shytty a job she did.
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

The Original
Bushed
WOAT
Supporter
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
338,367
Reputation
-35,068
Daps
641,708
Reppin
The Deep State
I thought that you agreed that the number was 137, but you were ok with donald trump saying 200 billion because you were caping for donald trump. Now I know you are just retarded... most economists agree that illegal immigrants have a net benefit for the economy, but even if we disregard what most economists say, by what metric could 12,000,000 people cost the united states 200,000,000,000 a year? How is that even remotely possible? There are no facts on the internet to support this in any way, shape, or form

I know this is asking a lot, but please use some common sense. he made up a number that was blatantly false just admit that we are right for criticizing him and move on
I'm not caping for Trump. I can't stand the fukking guy.

But if he throws out 200 BILLION (not even million) which is an already astronomical amount, and someone wants to quote 137 billion off of a source they can't even cite themselves, then whats the big fukking deal here?

Is it "wrong" ...sure. But Slate didn't even source where they got their numbers from.

Stop this fake outrage.

Theres PLENTY of other shyt to come down on them for
 

brick james

John piffington
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
1,876
Reputation
179
Daps
4,007
I'm not caping for Trump. I can't stand the fukking guy.

But if he throws out 200 BILLION (not even million) which is an already astronomical amount, and someone wants to quote 137 billion off of a source they can't even cite themselves, then whats the big fukking deal here?

Is it "wrong" ...sure. But Slate didn't even source where they got their numbers from.

Stop this fake outrage.

Theres PLENTY of other shyt to come down on them for

What better way is there to come down on them then when they say blatantly false shyt?
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

The Original
Bushed
WOAT
Supporter
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
338,367
Reputation
-35,068
Daps
641,708
Reppin
The Deep State
:what:
Huckabee said Hillary was being investigated by the FBI, the truth is that the FBI is investigating whether anyone in government sent her an confidential documents. The implication is that there is a criminal investigation targeting Clinton which there is not.
.
REPORT: The FBI put its 'A-team' on the 'extremely serious' Hillary Clinton email probe

And Huckabee still isn't wrong. You can debate why the FBI is investigating her, but the fact that they are is just Huckabee's point.

Stop being lazy.

Fiorina flat out lied about those PP vids as multiple people who actually watched them has pointed out. Her implication is that PP is scooping out viable fetuses and leaving them flailing about on tables while talking about "keep it alive so we can make some cash off of it's organs!".
Actually, Fiorina isn't far off. I support PP and all of the valuable research that comes out of out that gift bag of body parts they sell to academic institutions...BUT...was she far off? No. Not in the slightest.

Fiorina lied about what happened at HP in the debate just like she has been lying about it since she got fired. If she actually told the truth about her time there she would be eviscerated by her own party's voters. So by "embellishing" she gives this illusion that she accomplished great things at HP and her firing was not because of how shytty a job she did

She says she doubled the company size...and you want to talk about it was due to them buying another company...stop the fukking noise here. Thats like Apple saying they're the largest phone brand, and that depends if you're talking bout by sales, units, OS penetration etc.... or a whole other host of metrics.

Its outright tricky and a slight of the hand.

You all should be very wary of these "fact checking" sites that exist to merely live in the margins of talking points, instead of informing both sides (or any side) of the debate forum...ESPECIALLY if they come from places with a known slant, like Slate.

If Slate wants respect, they shouldn't quote lazy talking points which are easily forgotten mere slips of the tongue.
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

The Original
Bushed
WOAT
Supporter
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
338,367
Reputation
-35,068
Daps
641,708
Reppin
The Deep State
What better way is there to come down on them then when they say blatantly false shyt?
I have no problem with these articles...but calling them "blatantly false" is a flat out lie. Just because you agree with Obama or "the left" or "non-republicans" on any issue doesn't mean you're more right about it...it merely means that some statistic was interpreted to support your biases.

So when Florina talks about how the PKK got weapons, if she says "directly" it doesn't really matter if they got filtered down because the point is that guns went from A to B and all that shyt in-between is cannon fodder to fill TV time between talking heads. Its useless fukking info.
 

brick james

John piffington
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
1,876
Reputation
179
Daps
4,007
I have no problem with these articles...but calling them "blatantly false" is a flat out lie. Just because you agree with Obama or "the left" or "non-republicans" on any issue doesn't mean you're more right about it...it merely means that some statistic was interpreted to support your biases.

.

Breh the trump statement was blatantly false, how is that a flat out lie, illegal immigrants cost no where near over 200$ billion a year? my ideology has no bearing on this argument. donald trump, who is running on immigration reform, can barely get basic facts correct, and at worst is lying on purpose
 

Jello Biafra

A true friend stabs you in the front
Supporter
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
46,184
Reputation
4,958
Daps
120,924
Reppin
Behind You
REPORT: The FBI put its 'A-team' on the 'extremely serious' Hillary Clinton email probe

And Huckabee still isn't wrong. You can debate why the FBI is investigating her, but the fact that they are is just Huckabee's point.

Stop being lazy.

Actually, Fiorina isn't far off. I support PP and all of the valuable research that comes out of out that gift bag of body parts they sell to academic institutions...BUT...was she far off? No. Not in the slightest.



She says she doubled the company size...and you want to talk about it was due to them buying another company...stop the fukking noise here. Thats like Apple saying they're the largest phone brand, and that depends if you're talking bout by sales, units, OS penetration etc.... or a whole other host of metrics.

Its outright tricky and a slight of the hand.

You all should be very wary of these "fact checking" sites that exist to merely live in the margins of talking points, instead of informing both sides (or any side) of the debate forum...ESPECIALLY if they come from places with a known slant, like Slate.

If Slate wants respect, they shouldn't quote lazy talking points which are easily forgotten mere slips of the tongue.
Hillary Clinton is not the target of the FBI investigation though that is what you seem to be missing and Huckabee saying she was is an outright lie.

And Fiorina was far off about PP because the main thrust of her little diatribe was about something that is not actually true.

BY saying she doubled the size of HP, Fiorina is trying to imply that she made the company a success when in reality she only doubled the size of HP by acquiring Compaq and then she proceeded to ruin both companies. Her time at HP was not a success and since her sole claim to being a good pick to be President is that she was a CEO it is very relevant and not the slightest but "nitpicky" to hold her accountable to actually telling the truth about her time running companies.

And things said at a debate are precisely what needs to be fact checked in the most thorough manner possible because for most voters these debates are where they get most of their information about what these people are all about. So just letting them say any old shyt that comes to mind regardless of its veracity is not a good look. The stuff these candidates say at debates are not just talking points. This stuff is what convinces people to vote for them.
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

The Original
Bushed
WOAT
Supporter
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
338,367
Reputation
-35,068
Daps
641,708
Reppin
The Deep State
Breh the trump statement was blatantly false, how is that a flat out lie, illegal immigrants cost no where near over 200$ billion a year? my ideology has no bearing on this argument. donald trump, who is running on immigration reform, can barely get basic facts correct, and at worst is lying on purpose
Fam, Trump said 200B.

Slate said 137B.

You act like this is earth shattering?

Why aren't you even going lower? Like $20!!!

hell, he was maybe misunderstood. Maybe he legit thought it was 200B. Why do you think he's immune to being misled himself?

Its not like he was off by a fukkload here... :what:

137B isn't something to laugh at either.

My point is that these gotcha talking points are still bullshyt.
 

brick james

John piffington
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
1,876
Reputation
179
Daps
4,007
Fam, Trump said 200B.

Slate said 137B.

You act like this is earth shattering?

Why aren't you even going lower? Like $20!!!

hell, he was maybe misunderstood. Maybe he legit thought it was 200B. Why do you think he's immune to being misled himself?

Its not like he was off by a fukkload here... :what:

137B isn't something to laugh at either.

My point is that these gotcha talking points are still bullshyt.

Are you confused? Donald Trump said that illegal immigration cost over 200$ billion a year in tax payer money. Slate said that it would cost 137 billion to deport immigrants. How can you not see that the 137 billion dollars is one estimate of the cost of donald trumps plan, and that 200 billion dollars a year is the burden of illegal immigration on tax payers. The 200 billion is blatantly false, and a more realistic estimate if we are just counting welfare and such would be in the millions

I am persistently arguing this point, because I honestly believe he was lying on purpose to mislead ignorant rednecks. There is no way that you come up with a number like "over 200$ billion", when most economists put illegal immigration at a net positive to the economy, and if you misrepresent the facts you get a number that is far lower
 

tmonster

Superstar
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
17,900
Reputation
3,205
Daps
31,793
YrcXYYz.png

I think it's fair to say that Trump has the most intricate comb-over job in history
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

The Original
Bushed
WOAT
Supporter
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
338,367
Reputation
-35,068
Daps
641,708
Reppin
The Deep State
Are you confused? Donald Trump said that illegal immigration cost over 200$ billion a year in tax payer money. Slate said that it would cost 137 billion to deport immigrants. How can you not see that the 137 billion dollars is one estimate of the cost of donald trumps plan, and that 200 billion dollars a year is the burden of illegal immigration on tax payers. The 200 billion is blatantly false, and a more realistic estimate if we are just counting welfare and such would be in the millions

I am persistently arguing this point, because I honestly believe he was lying on purpose to mislead ignorant rednecks. There is no way that you come up with a number like "over 200$ billion", when most economists put illegal immigration at a net positive to the economy, and if you misrepresent the facts you get a number that is far lower
We're talking about which inordinate amount of billions matter more? Really?

These are estimates. Just be honest that you prefer whatever slate says, regardless of if its even right.
 

brick james

John piffington
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
1,876
Reputation
179
Daps
4,007
We're talking about which inordinate amount of billions matter more? Really?

These are estimates. Just be honest that you prefer whatever slate says, regardless of if its even right.

You are being obtuse on purpose breh. I don't give a fukk if slate is wrong or right because they are terrible writers and I don't check for them. But for the record, there are a number of sources that say that the cost of deporting 12 million people would be between 100 and 200 billion dollars. HOWEVER, there is not a single source that states illegal immigrants cost tax payers over 200 billion dollars annually. One study has the cost at 113 billion, The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2013), and even then that is strongly misrepresenting the facts, which is why most economists think illegal immigration has a net benefit for the country.

My preferences don't matter, we are discussing facts right now.
 
Top