Fat joe and Angie Martinez speak about Latinos being left out of Hip Hop Conversation

[IllmaticDelta]

Didn't watch the 🖇..

But..

Why is it when people discuss HIPHOP, it is ALWAYS about one element of it which is rapping??

But, to get to brass tax, Fat Joe & Angie Martinez need to point @ their own people for that one. If Latinos mostly support Black artists, then that may be one of the major reasons why they aren't mentioned amongst the masses.

However, for those who was in the culture from the beginning, then there is no denying that Latinos were influential in all elements of HIPHOP from Djing, B-Boying, Graffiti, making, etc.

I was and still fans of quite a few Latino HIPHOP artists from the various elements. I was about supporting dope artists regardless of their background.

As far as who started HIPHOP first, then that is another conversation, but most HIPHOP fans and historians know the answer to that question...

Because Rapping was the element that changed the landscape of modern popular music. If it wasn't for the rapper, HipHop culture would have died by 1975-1977.

 

[Commish]

Because Rapping was the element that changed the landscape of modern popular music. If it wasn't for the rapper, HipHop culture would have died by 1975-1977.

Hmm..

I guess for the masses, you are right. But, for me, that isn't the case. Right now, it's the so called rappers out now that got me to shy away from rap music. But, I came from a different generation, so what's out today isn't made for me to like...

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Hmm..

I guess for the masses, you are right.

Who else would it matter to? If Rappers didn't come along, what we now think of as "HipHop" culture would have been an unknown movement that existed in the Bronx for about 5-7 years and then disappeared.

Dj Jazzy Jay:

Flash:

But, for me, that isn't the case. Right now, it's the so called rappers out now that got me to shy away from rap music. But, I came from a different generation, so what's out today isn't made for me to like...

Well, "Rap" on record is like 40 years old, It would make sense if what you hear now didn't appeal to your musical senses like what you initially first fell "in love" with it, especially if you're talking stuff from 20 years ago.

 

[Commish]

Who else would it matter to? If Rappers didn't come along, what we now think of as "HipHop" culture would have been an unknown movement that existed in the Bronx for about 5-7 years and then disappeared.

Dj Jazzy Jay:

Flash:

Well, "Rap" on record is like 40 years old, It would make sense if what you hear now didn't appeal to your musical senses like what you initially first fell "in love" with it, especially if you're talking stuff from 20 years ago.

I said what I said because I personally don't give credence to the masses. Musical taste is a personal choice, so I can give a doggone about what the masses like.

With me, the so called emcee doesn't supercede the DJ nor the beat maker maker/producer. They are all equal of importance to me.

To the masses, the rapper is end all be all and that is where me and the masses differ.

When I was heavy into the culture, I would support and buy records, CDs, etc. not only from emcees, but also DJs and beat makers. I was just as much of a fan of instrumental records and mixtapes/beat tapes as I was with records with vocals.

In essence, it wasn't about who was popular. It was and still is about who is dope!! Now, who is or isn't dope is subjective, however, I always felt that my musical taste was sufficient enough to stand on it's own.

As to the original point of this thread, I know that I supported Latino artists whether they rapped, b-boy'd, dj'd graffitti'd or made beats/produced if I felt that they were dope.

It didn't matter to me what ethnic background they came from. Same could be said about white folks, Asians, people from other countries, etc. Dope is dope and wack is wack. You either one or the other regardless of one's ascribed status.

 

[Mystic]

Latinos have been part of hip hop since day one. They were apart of every aspect of hip hop and street culture.

False. We created that shyt point blank all us NOBODY else. They help push it forward though but they were not fukking with it at first

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I said what I said because I personally don't give credence to the masses. Musical taste is a personal choice, so I can give a doggone about what the masses like.

With me, the so called emcee doesn't supercede the DJ nor the beat maker maker/producer. They are all equal of importance to me.

To the masses, the rapper is end all be all and that is where me and the masses differ.

I hear you but what you must understand is, HipHop culture today is only a topic/global culture because of its musical importance/impact that spread it first out of the Bronx in the late 1970s

. What we now call "HipHop" style graffiti only became a global thing because of its later ties to HipHop MUSIC......entering the global mainstream because it came packaged with a music (HipHop) even though the OG Graf artist existed before HipHop was a thing and they were listening to Rock, Disco, and Soul/Funk (not looped with mcs)





it's only because of Rap music did it was able get global recognition


same thing with bboys which were obviously were always connected to hiphop's musical side


1982

When I was heavy into the culture, I would support and buy records, CDs, etc. not only from emcees, but also DJs and beat makers. I was just as much of a fan of instrumental records and mixtapes/beat tapes as I was with records with vocals.

In essence, it wasn't about who was popular. It was and still is about who is dope!! Now, who is or isn't dope is subjective, however, I always felt that my musical taste was sufficient enough to stand on it's own.

As to the original point of this thread, I know that I supported Latino artists whether they rapped, b-boy'd, dj'd graffitti'd or made beats/produced if I felt that they were dope.

It didn't matter to me what ethnic background they came from. Same could be said about white folks, Asians, people from other countries, etc. Dope is dope and wack is wack. You either one or the other regardless of one's ascribed status.

the debate is more about the time lines in which Ricans (the first latins in HipHop) entered HipHop culture based on Fat Joes claims that Ricans and Black are "50/50 partnership" in the origins more than anything else

 

[The Fade]

He hosting BET awards now

 

[Commish]

I hear you but what you must understand is, HipHop culture today is only a topic/global culture because of its musical importance/impact that spread it first out of the Bronx in the late 1970s

. What we now call "HipHop" style graffiti only became a global thing because of its later ties to HipHop MUSIC......entering the global mainstream because it came packaged with a music (HipHop) even though the OG Graf artist existed before HipHop was a thing and they were listening to Rock, Disco, and Soul/Funk (not looped with mcs)





it's only because of Rap music did it was able get global recognition


same thing with bboys which were obviously were always connected to hiphop's musical side


1982









the debate is more about the time lines in which Ricans (the first latins in HipHop) entered HipHop culture based on Fat Joes claims that Ricans and Black are "50/50 partnership" in the origins more than anything else

I'm not disagreeing with you. To what extent PRs and other Latinos in NY played a hand into the origins of HipHop I will leave up to those who were actually there during it's birth..

But, I don't understand why people are debating about this now??

I don't think most people who listens to HipHop now give a shyt about who started HipHop. Their focus is solely on who is hot at the moment. Then years from now, they will be on whoever is hot then.

My overall point is that it doesn't matter who started HIPHOP these days because I understand that Black people in NYC set that shyt off and made it to where it is today. I am also sure some Latinos and even a few white folks may have been around back then and made whatever contributions they made.

They just didn't make a big enough impact to take equal credit as the Black pioneers did(speaking for the total evolution of the genre & culture).

Fat Joe is a widely known HipHop artist and Angie Martinez made her mark within the NYC radio station scene. To me, that is a good enough contribution and I am sure that most people who is knowledgeable of HipHop give them their just due. I know I do.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I'm not disagreeing with you. To what extent PRs and other Latinos in NY played a hand into the origins of HipHop I will leave up to those who were actually there during it's birth..

But, I don't understand why people are debating about this now??

I don't think most people who listens to HipHop now give a shyt about who started HipHop. Their focus is solely on who is hot at the moment. Then years from now, they will be on whoever is hot then.

My overall point is that it doesn't matter who started HIPHOP these days because I understand that Black people in NYC set that shyt off and made it to where it is today. I am also sure some Latinos and even a few white folks may have been around back then and made whatever contributions they made.

They just didn't make a big enough impact to take equal credit as the Black pioneers did(speaking for the total evolution of the genre & culture).

Fat Joe is a widely known HipHop artist and Angie Martinez made her mark within the NYC radio station scene. To me, that is a good enough contribution and I am sure that most people who is knowledgeable of HipHop give them their just due. I know I do.

The "Latins (Ricans) being there from the start" and their place in its history ISN'T a new topic. There are numerous books, articles, dissertations, and docus that touch on the validity of the claim. If you read/seen any of the sources I mentioned above, you would know that "blacks" have been/always said Ricans were the first outsiders to become involved in the culture but they've always pointed out that they WERE NOT pioneers/foundational to the culture.





Nuyorican history docu (2006)






Bboy docu from 2002






The topic/question has always been around but because Fat Joe has to always be loud mouthed, with what he says, he ended up opening up a can of worms he didn't see coming

 

[Commish]

The "Latins (Ricans) being there from the start" and their place in its history ISN'T a new topic. There are numerous books, articles, dissertations, and docus that touch on the validity of the claim. If you read/seen any of the sources I mentioned above, you would know that "blacks" have been/always said Ricans were the first outsiders to become involved in the culture but they've always pointed out that they WERE NOT pioneers/foundational to the culture.





Nuyorican history docu (2006)






Bboy docu from 2002






The topic/question has always bee around but because Fat Joe has to always be loud mouthed, with what he says, he ended up opening up a can of worms he didn't see coming

This isn't the first time I have heard the debate. I have known that PRs have been around since the early years of HIPHOP.

But, my question is this...

Since it has been an on going debate, who are Fat Joe & Angie Martinez trying to convince? Seems like their argument should be with Hiphop historians or those who were around when Hiphop started in the Bronx.

In am sure we can agree that Black people started damn near every musical genre that's been invented including clasical music.

But, I believe most people don't care about HipHop history and I don't believe that most people really know much about all of the elements of the culture let alone care.

What people nowadays care about....

What rapper is about that street shyt. What rapper is with whoever groupie who is clout chasing. What gang said rapper is affiliated with. How much money, cars and jewelry said rappers own/wear. Basically, teenie bopper shyt!

Only middle aged people care about this topic IMO and most of them should know who started HipHop as well as experienced its maturation/evolution....

 

[who_better_than_me]

The irony of this sentiment coming from Fat Joe where he could’ve done the most for Hispanic artist but completely dropped the ball with the original TS(who were supremely talented) after Puns death. It’s no reason Tony Sunshine and Cuban Linx( and the rest of the original TS)shouldn’t have had bigger careers (Im aware of the beef with with CL)

 

[IllmaticDelta]

This isn't the first time I have heard the debate. I have known that PRs have been around since the early years of HIPHOP.

But, my question is this...

Since it has been an on going debate, who are Fat Joe & Angie Martinez trying to convince? Seems like their argument should be with Hiphop historians or those who were around when Hiphop started in the Bronx.

I just think he's doing his typical boasting trying to prove to everybody how "down" he is and one way he's tried to accomplish this, is by exaggerating the Rican foundations of HipHop while also claiming that all Latinos are "black"

In am sure we can agree that Black people started damn near every musical genre that's been invented including clasical music.

But, I believe most people don't care about HipHop history and I don't believe that most people really know much about all of the elements of the culture let alone care.

What people nowadays care about....

What rapper is about that street shyt. What rapper is with whoever groupie who is clout chasing. What gang said rapper is affiliated with. How much money, cars and jewelry said rappers own/wear. Basically, teenie bopper shyt!

Only middle aged people care about this topic IMO and most of them should know who started HipHop as well as experienced its maturation/evolution....

The people that do care are the ones that don't want its true history get lost in the mist of its popularity/globalization. This happened in other USA genres of music before and many, don't want to see it happen again.

 

[Commish]

I just think he's doing his typical boasting trying to prove to everybody how "down" he is and one way he's tried to accomplish this, is by exaggerating the Rican foundations of HipHop while also claiming that all Latinos are "black"




The people that do care are the ones that don't want its true history get lost in the mist of its popularity/globalization. This happened in other USA genres of music before and many, don't want to see it happen again.

Well, let's see what happens....

 

[theworldismine13]

 

[Ish Gibor]

Star touched on Busta’s controversy. And what Busta said is completely incorrect. He and Joe need to apologize! On the block with Jen also called in and doubled down on what Busta said, so she needs to apologize as well.




Here is what I posted in the comment section to Jen:

“To kick this one off. I’m not Black American (FBA/ ADOS/Freedman) and I’m from overseas.

Jenny is absolutely ridiculous for saying this trash. She clearly doesn’t know history North America history at that.

This woman at times is just saying anything. But being “pretty girl” doesn’t equate you’re right!

Southern culture for the most part is Black American culture. She loves to use the word Gumbo a lot. Well that right there is typical Southern and Black American cuisine, amongst many other soul food dishes. She should pick up a Southern soul food book, do some “sight seeing” of all these old settlements where Black Americans cultivated the culture Black Americans have. Right there in NY she can start and progressively move towards the South. The Harlem Renaissance directly is has to do with the rise of Black Americans moving to the North, New York. Taking with them Blues and Jazz, mixing it up with the Black population that already lived there for centuries.

Things like Stepping are at foundation of Breakdancing, as per the first b boy: Trixie.

Spoken word, which they took with them from the griot culture and morphed into spoken word and from spoken word to rap. Is all Black culture that was developed over time, on North American soil.

The Blues gave rise to Rock n Roll and Jazz. Rock n Roll gave rise to Rock, while Jazz gave rise to Funk and Disco. And Disco gave rise to House music and Hip Hop. These are just the main genres created by Black Americans that stem from Black American culture. There’s a lot of sub genres to these main genres.

Meanwhile Spanish (the real Spaniards from the Iberian Peninsula) laugh at how Caribbeans speak Spanish. They laugh at the pronunciations etc. Jenny fully embraces this. Yet has something to say about “massa” on main land America. What about the psychological damage they did in the Caribbean and Latin America, Jenn?

Jenn had so much to say about Afrobeat. Yet she doesn’t know the foundation of Afrobeat is in North America, by a Black American woman named Sandra Izsadore. Fela Kuti admitted to that.

Jenn clearly doesn’t understand music theory and again is just saying anything.

See the book "Africa and the Blues" by Gerhard Kubik. Check for Fatou Seidi Ghali (Les Filles de Illighadad) - Telilit
and resemblance to R.L. Burnside: See My Jumper Hanging On the Line (1978).

The African pentatonic system = blues scale or rather vice versa.

A pentatonic scale is a five-note scale, while heptatonic is seven notes. That specific scale originates from Africa, particularly West Africa. It is not found in the classical Western tradition or other musical traditions around the world, which have their own unique musical systems. Yet it’s at the foundation of Blues and Jazz, Jenny.

Again, I’m not Black American, FBA, ADOS, Freedmen. I am Black and from overseas. I stand with FBA, ADOS, Freedmen.“