Fat Joe getting drug for saying Latinos created hip hop

[Ish Gibor]

I remember when "you gotta flow Joe" came out I wouldn't agree that ditc made him famous

But scoffing at the videos shows you don't have any real evidence. Those videos are the actual oral history. At the inception of hip hop Latinos were not there, there is zero evidence of them being there

Produced by Diamond D (tracks: A1 to B1) in 1993.

Fat Joe - Flow Joe

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1993 Vinyl release of "Flow Joe" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

"Fat Joe: I was D.I.T.C. from day one, we all grew up in the same projects. Me and Diamond used to write graffiti together, I used to hang out with Finesse. Finesse always told me he was going to be a rapper. I couldn’t believe it when I heard him on the radio. I might have jumped to the fukking moon, I was like WHAT THE fukk? [Laughs]"

"The first member of D.I.T.C. to officially release music was Diamond D, who teamd with rapper Master Rob to form the group Ultimate Force. They released one 12-inch single in 1989 on Strong City Records called “I’m Not Playin’,” propelled by an expertly-freaked sample from Stax Records’ blues guitar royalty Albert King. Produced by Jazzy Jay, it would be the only song released by the duo, despite a shelved 12-track album produced almost entirely by Diamond D. A 2007 unearthing of that LP revealed the earliest known recordings by Fat Joe on “Another Hit” and “Oh, shyt,” respectively. Due to the album being shelved, we wouldn’t hear Joe’s voice for the first time until years later."

 

[Ish Gibor]

Joe just used the wrong words. PRs helped make hip hop what it was. You gotta remember back in the beginning of Hip Hop it wasnt just spitting bars and a DJ spinning. It was the B-Boys and graffiti artist as well. Hip hop isnt just music. It's the culture as a whole. Puerto Ricans were definitely big on the dancing and graffiti.

Graffiti wasn't part of the original Hip Hop (B Boy) culture, it was incorporated later on, in the late '70s early '80s.

This is why this chronology is important.

 

[Ish Gibor]

I feel, people who cannot mention more than 5 pioneering MCees from the 70s, should not open their mouth on the matter of Hip Hop history.

Close thread/

 

[theworldismine13]

No Dominicans in the south Bronx in the 70s?

That's a lie a
My mom's came as a kid in the 60's my pops in the 70s. I was born in 81.


50/50 hell no

Maybe 90/10 as far as influence 90blk 10pr


Whoever said it's 50/50 that's bullshyt and it's impossible the language barrier was huge back then so no Latinos didn't create it but they was apart of the early part some as onlookers and some really in it..

Merengue derived from African culture and salsa is like culmination of styles from American and African culture.

The whole carribean culture derives of the motherland

It's just a general statement, I'm sure there were Dominicans here and there, if you want to get historical I believe it was a black Dominican that discovered Manhattan in the 1600s with the Dutch (or something like that) but as far as this discussion of the development of hip hop in the south Bronx, Dominicans are not a factor

What Puerto Ricans, specifically nuyoricans, did do 50/50 is freestyle music and certain style of jazz

 

[theworldismine13]

Produced by Diamond D (tracks: A1 to B1) in 1993.

Fat Joe - Flow Joe

View credits, reviews, tracks and shop for the 1993 Vinyl release of "Flow Joe" on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

"Fat Joe: I was D.I.T.C. from day one, we all grew up in the same projects. Me and Diamond used to write graffiti together, I used to hang out with Finesse. Finesse always told me he was going to be a rapper. I couldn’t believe it when I heard him on the radio. I might have jumped to the fukking moon, I was like WHAT THE fukk? [Laughs]"

"The first member of D.I.T.C. to officially release music was Diamond D, who teamd with rapper Master Rob to form the group Ultimate Force. They released one 12-inch single in 1989 on Strong City Records called “I’m Not Playin’,” propelled by an expertly-freaked sample from Stax Records’ blues guitar royalty Albert King. Produced by Jazzy Jay, it would be the only song released by the duo, despite a shelved 12-track album produced almost entirely by Diamond D. A 2007 unearthing of that LP revealed the earliest known recordings by Fat Joe on “Another Hit” and “Oh, shyt,” respectively. Due to the album being shelved, we wouldn’t hear Joe’s voice for the first time until years later."

Yeah I know all that but DITC isn't famous relatively speaking so how could they make fat Joe famous lol, that's like saying the outsidaz made Eminem famous

Only hip hop headz know who ditc and the outsidaz are, you can make the argument that ditc gave fat Joe hip hop credentials

But Fat Joe got famous cuz of big pun, if it wasn't for that he would be just as "famous" as the other ditc members

 

[BaRRyG]

Yeah I know all that but DITC isn't famous relatively speaking so how could they make fat Joe famous lol, that's like saying the outsidaz made Eminem famous

Only hip hop headz know who ditc and the outsidaz are, you can make the argument that ditc gave fat Joe hip hop credentials

But Fat Joe got famous cuz of big pun, if it wasn't for that he would be just as "famous" as the other ditc members

In nyc he was famous

 

[theworldismine13]

In nyc he was famous

yes, sort of, during that era there was a separation between commercial and underground hip hop, fat joe and ditc represented underground hip hop, so it is correct that joe was well known by hip hop headz in nyc or all over the country, but if it wasnt for pun joe would have remained as a nyc underground rapper

 

[IllmaticDelta]

From what I have gathered the few who came in at first were predominantly Afro-Ricans.

The earliest Rican pioneers of note were more on the light skinned side

Cholly Rock addresses the presence of Ricans in the Black Spades and explains that there was "quite a few" Ricans in the Black Spades. He doesn't give any number or percentage. (see the interview posted below, part 1).

Cholly Rock was a Baby Spade from the mid 1970s (after the gang truce) so it's possible he saw Ricans in there by that time. The OG Spades were rooted in NOI/Black Panther/5% rhetoric so it would have made it highly unlikely that Ricans would have been down. In the late 1960s and early 1970, the Black Spades and Ricans gangs were enemies

How is this important? Because we need to see the development on Hip Hop in its proper chronological context and order. What was going on at the time? We had the Black Power movement, NOI with the 5%, Civil Rights Era and the Great Migration from the South to NY. Predominantly from the Carolina region, as Tariq pointed out. He was correct on that one.

This brings us to the history and culture of Carolina, the Gullah Geechee and the old Black (FBA) demographic in NY.

@IllmaticDelta and I have talked about this migration from the South to NY in earlier posts/ threads. Perhaps @IllmaticDelta can repost that data / information here? So we can do some further deconstruction.

"Between 1900 and 1940, almost two million African Americans left the South. Most departing from North Carolina moved directly north to states along the East Coast. In fact, North Carolinians, along with Virginians and South Carolinians, topped the list of immigrants to New York State."
[...]
As blacks moved north in this “Great Migration,” they created communities within cities. It was not uncommon to find entire blocks of families from one southern state. Many North Carolinians moved to Harlem, the center of black life in New York City. During the “Harlem Renaissance” of the 1920s, African American art, literature, and music flourished. It was in this environment that young Romare Bearden grew up, surrounded by a large group of African Americans from his home state as well as from other areas of the South and the Caribbean.

Tar heel junior historian [2006 : spring, v.45 : no.2] - North Carolina Digital Collections

Tar heel junior historian [2006 : spring, v.45 : no.2], North Carolina, United States, Tarheel junior historian, Tarheel historian (OCoLC)20803112, North Carolina Museum of History, Users are responsible for determining the legal status of and securing any permissions necessary to distribute...

www.ncpedia.org

The Afram stock in the foundational backdrop to early HipHp is mainly from the Carolinas (if you made a list of OG pioneers on/within foundational NYC HipHop, the Carolinian-rooted ones would be at least 3x longer than any other comparison. That list would include the likes of Dj Hollywood, Pete Dj Jones, Grandmaster Flowers, Disco King Mario, Dj Kool D, Dj Hollywood, Grand Wizard Theodore, Melle Mel, Cowboy and many more...) and then Virginia/Maryland

 

[Ish Gibor]

The earliest Rican pioneers of note were more on the light skinned side

Light skinned doesn't indicate that they weren't Afro-Puerto Ricans. See Crazy Legs (not that he was the earliest, but his lighter complexioned). It's just some pattern I have noticed by looking at Prince Whipper Whip, Joe Gonzo, Tex DJ Hollywood etc. You probably will find mestizo types as well, but I think to a lesser degree.

The history of Puerto Rico in itself is interesting, considering it was the place that first had enslaved Africans. That or the Dominican Republic, but the DR is beside the point. Considering this conversation is about PR. (side-note) Back in the early 2000s I knew a Rican woman. Her dad was a Black Rican who was part of the Black Panthers. He was dark skinned, she showed me his picture.















Melle Mel was claimed to be of Barbadian descent. Not sure from where people are getting this #91?

Tariq & Akademiks Arguing Over Origins of Hip Hop

Who is besides Herc?:patrice: there are only three:beli: Kool Herc - Jamaican Doug E Fresh - Barbados Grandmaster Flowers - Jamaica Kings Charles (Jamaica) Grandmaster Flash (Barbados) Kid Creole - Jamaica Afrika Bambatta and the Zulu Nation - Jamaica Kurtis Blow - Barbados DJ Disco Wiz...

www.thecoli.com

I have not been able to find anything about him being from Barbados. Nor am I not sure why people make these claims. It's weird.

Browse In Hip Hop/Rap Artist, 1929–1940: The Great Depression and the New Deal | Oxford African American Studies Center

Browse In Hip Hop/Rap Artist, 1929–1940: The Great Depression and the New Deal | Oxford African American Studies Center

oxfordaasc.com

Cholly Rock was a Baby Spade from the mid 1970s (after the gang truce) so it's possible he saw Ricans in there by that time. The OG Spades were rooted in NOI/Black Panther/5% rhetoric so it would have made it highly unlikely that Ricans would have been down. In the late 1960s and early 1970, the Black Spades and Ricans gangs were enemies

Yes, he said that in an interview at the “All City TaxiTalk Show”. It's in the previous post. It's one of the parts, I forgot which. Ricans and the Black Spades had a truce in the '71.

The Afram stock in the foundational backdrop to early HipHp is mainly from the Carolinas (if you made a list of OG pioneers on/within foundational NYC HipHop, the Carolinian-rooted ones would be at least 3x longer than any other comparison. That list would include the likes of Dj Hollywood, Pete Dj Jones, Grandmaster Flowers, Disco King Mario, Dj Kool D, Dj Hollywood, Grand Wizard Theodore, Melle Mel, Cowboy and many more...) and then Virginia/Maryland

Great built.

There are a few important dynamics that play part in this history and how things have evolved as you point out here. I posted about that as well (#154 post link below).

Fat Joe getting drug for saying Latinos created hip hop

It’s making rounds I got into a back and forth with crazy legs himself, on instagram What was the scuffle about? Crazy Legs himself said in an interview that he was taken to a party by Black Americans in the late 70s, in fact it was 79 when he learned about break dancing, and that's by his...

www.thecoli.com

Enjoy,

 

[Ish Gibor]

Yeah I know all that but DITC isn't famous relatively speaking so how could they make fat Joe famous lol, that's like saying the outsidaz made Eminem famous

Only hip hop headz know who ditc and the outsidaz are, you can make the argument that ditc gave fat Joe hip hop credentials

But Fat Joe got famous cuz of big pun, if it wasn't for that he would be just as "famous" as the other ditc members

The way I have experienced the D.I.T.C. was perhaps different? The impact these MC's from the DITC had was certainly relevant during the Golden Era.

We speak of Lord Fineness, Andrew the Giant (AG), Showbiz, Big L, Buckwild and unofficial KRS One. And to some lesser degree O.C. (at the time).

Eminem became famous because he's white. And that made him exceptional. Many have done what he did, prior to Em doing it. That is nor here, or there. But yeah, I do wonder where he would have been without the "Outsidaz", the same I consider where Fat Joe would have been without the D.I.T.C.

What you are saying basically is that The Wu Tang Clan was not responsible for Methodman's success and fame. Or The Native Tongue Family with Q Tip and so on...

 

[Ish Gibor]

 

[theworldismine13]

The way I have experienced the D.I.T.C. was perhaps different? The impact these MC's from the DITC had was certainly relevant during the Golden Era.

We speak of Lord Fineness, Andrew the Giant (AG), Showbiz, Big L, Buckwild and unofficial KRS One. And to some lesser degree O.C. (at the time).

Eminem became famous because he's white. And that made him exceptional. Many have done what he did, prior to Em doing it. That is nor here, or there. But yeah, I do wonder where he would have been without the "Outsidaz", the same I consider where Fat Joe would have been without the D.I.T.C.

What you are saying basically is that The Wu Tang Clan was not responsible for Methodman's success and fame. Or The Native Tongue Family with Q Tip and so on...

What do you mean you experienced ditc differently? I know perfectly well who DITC was

I'm defining famous as commercially successfu. DITC was not commercially successful, it's not a diss , it's just facts. DITC is and was an underground hip hop crew and so was the outsidaz

Wutang clan started out as underground hip hop and became commmercially successful, and then the individual members ate from that, so Wu tang definitely made meth famous

Native tongue was a "crew" that formed after they (tribe and de la) had become commmercially successful and they were never really a crew so that's a horrible example

Eminem became famous because of dr Dre. Fat Joe became famous because of big puns success. But again, I'm defining famous as commercially successful

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Light skinned doesn't indicate that they weren't Afro-Puerto Ricans. See Crazy Legs (not that he was the earliest, but his lighter complexioned). It's just some pattern I have noticed by looking at Prince Whipper Whip, Joe Gonzo, Tex DJ Hollywood etc. You probably will find mestizo types as well, but I think to a lesser degree.

Technically, almost all Nuyoricans could be called "Afro-Rican" because they were/are almost all of African descent (triracial). In this case, I mean "visibly black" in a way that they themselves would identify that way. I don't think Crazy Legs think of himself as "Black" even though he clearly has "afro" hair.

The history of Puerto Rico in itself is interesting, considering the it was the place that had the first enslaved Africans. That or the Dominican Republic, but the DR is beside the point. Considering this conversation is about PR. (sidetone) Back in the early 2000s I knew a Rican woman. Her dad was a Black Rican who was part of the Black Panthers. He was dark skinned, she showed me his picture.

Felipe Luciano who is a self described "Black Puerto Rican" worked closely with the Black Panthers. H Rap Brown (Panthers) and Kain (Last Poets)

told him to go be with his people (Ricans) and go lead them, which was the origin of the Young Lords

...but that's before the Bronx got flooded with youth gangs

Melle Mel was claimed to be of Barbadian descent. Not sure from where people are getting this #91?

Tariq & Akademiks Arguing Over Origins of Hip Hop

Who is besides Herc?:patrice: there are only three:beli: Kool Herc - Jamaican Doug E Fresh - Barbados Grandmaster Flowers - Jamaica Kings Charles (Jamaica) Grandmaster Flash (Barbados) Kid Creole - Jamaica Afrika Bambatta and the Zulu Nation - Jamaica Kurtis Blow - Barbados DJ Disco Wiz...

www.thecoli.com

I have not been able to find anything about him being from Barbados. Nor am I not sure why people make these claims. It's weird.

Browse In Hip Hop/Rap Artist, 1929–1940: The Great Depression and the New Deal | Oxford African American Studies Center

Browse In Hip Hop/Rap Artist, 1929–1940: The Great Depression and the New Deal | Oxford African American Studies Center

oxfordaasc.com

That poster posted a bs list lol. Melle Mel and Kid Creole are full blooded siblings and Kid Creole posted this on his website

The Kidd Creole one of the founding members of the Hip Hop pioneering group "Grandmaster Flash and The Furious 5" born in The Bronx, New York as Nathaniel Glover Jr. The Third son of Sarah K. Glover, (born in Reidsville, Georgia, USA) and the first son of Nathaniel Glover Sr. (born in Charleston, South Carolina, USA) with his brother Mele Mel (Melvin Glover) was exposed to poetry early in life (around the age of 10 or 11) by his sister Glander (who also shares a birthday with him, born a year earlier) she wrote poems and would recite them for her siblings this was the link that allowed him (first Mele Mel who wrote the first hip hop style rhyme) to transition from listening to poetry and then taking that knowledge and applying it to the music that was being played early in hip hop culture

The Kidd Creole Legendary Hip Hop Pioneer, Rock and Roll Hall of Famer

Yes, he said that in an interview at the “All City TaxiTalk Show”. It's in the previous post. It's one of the parts, I forgot which. Ricans and the Black Spades had a truce in the '71.






Great built.

There are a few important dynamics that play part in this history and how things have evolved as you point out here. I posted about that as well (#154 post link below).

Fat Joe getting drug for saying Latinos created hip hop

It’s making rounds I got into a back and forth with crazy legs himself, on instagram What was the scuffle about? Crazy Legs himself said in an interview that he was taken to a party by Black Americans in the late 70s, in fact it was 79 when he learned about break dancing, and that's by his...

www.thecoli.com

Enjoy,

Even after that truce, black and ricans gangs were still going at it

here is abby and trac2 talking about the negative energy that existed between blacks and latins (ricans) and that the two groups used to rumble against each other. It wasn't until they had a meeting with zulu nation that, that enetgy died off and the two groups came together (this is late 1970s)

 

[Ish Gibor]

Technically, almost all Nuyoricans could be called "Afro-Rican" because they were/are almost all of African descent (triracial). In this case, I mean "visibly black" in a way that they themselves would identify that way. I don't think Crazy Legs think of himself as "Black" even though he clearly has "afro" hair.

Yes, but I am referring to those with visible Afro textured hair at the time. It was during the late 60s early 70s, and they had no concept of DNA and "triracialism" as we do now.

Not sure how Crazy Legs looks at himself. I did hear stories about him going to Africa, to the Vudun festival. In the show by Star posted below he did address his grandma being Black and some African history. Meaning he's aware.

It started with the chick "Jen from the Block", who at times is all over the place. One minute she's Black, the next minute she's isn't, next she claim Afro-PR and so on.

Felipe Luciano who is a self described "Black Puerto Rican" worked closely with the Black Panthers. H Rap Brown (Panthers) and Kain (Last Poets)

told him to go be with his people (Ricans) and go lead them, which was the origin of the Young Lords

...but that's before the Bronx got flooded with youth gangs






That poster posted a bs list lol. Melle Mel and Kid Creole are full blooded siblings and Kid Creole posted this on his website





The Kidd Creole Legendary Hip Hop Pioneer, Rock and Roll Hall of Famer





Even after that truce, black and ricans gangs were still going at it

here is abby and trac2 talking about the negative energy that existed between blacks and latins (ricans) and that the two groups used to rumble against each other. It wasn't until they had a meeting with zulu nation that, that enetgy died off and the two groups came together (this is late 1970s)

Great built.


Crazy Legs called in on Star's show (it's timestamped at 1:13:00) some caller spoke wisdom at 1:44:30.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Yes, but I am referring to those with visible Afro textured hair at the time. It was during the late 60s early 70s, and they had no concept of DNA and "triracialism" as we do now.

Nah, they had a concept of triracialism but It wasn't verified by ancestry testing like we have today. Puertro Ricans used the term Trigueno for what would amount to light/wheat colored folks who don't look ether "white" or "black" (by their standards).

Not sure how Crazy Legs looks at himself. I did hear stories about him going to Africa, to the Vudun festival. In the show by Star posted below he did address his grandma being Black and some African history. Meaning he's aware.

Yeah, it's actually common as fuk for Nuyoricans to admit being part African/Black, even before we had DNA testing

. So that's where you would get exposed to it. As far as the Puerto Rican style of B-Boying is concerned...you know the Blacks had their own way of doing it...their own dance and from what I remember it was called The Go Off and we took some of that Go Off and added some of our style to it. You know we are also part of the African heritage...that's a part of our heritage, too. We come from the Spaniards, we also come from the African slaves that were brought to the Caribean Islands by the Spaniards and we come from the Tainos (the indigenous people of Puerto Rico)....so we got three different people in us. That's why I got green eyes, my dad is a black latino...my sister Joanna you know is a light skin Afro Rican. So we definetely got that influence."

Castles In The Sky

Interview with B-Boy Aby (The Bronx Boys) ...

preciousgemsofknowledge79.blogspot.com

It started with the chick "Jen from the Block", who at times is all over the place. One minute she's Black, the next minute she's isn't, next she claim Afro-PR and so on.


Great built.


Crazy Legs called in on Star's show (it's timestamped at 1:13:00) some caller spoke wisdom at 1:44:30.

Legs prety much kept it real, although he ain't tell the whole truth about Freestyle music. He's right that it was first called "Latin HipHop" before it was called "Latin Freestyle" but really, that sh1t was basically electro-hop/funk + R&B music