Roger king
Superstar
Absolute nonsense, giannis is the best player in the NBA no doubt, but in no way is luka and jokic 2 and 3. steph curry, kevin durant, kawhi are all better players than those two guys and give teams far better championship odds
For the first time in NBA history, the top 3 players are arguably internationally born. How do you feel about this?
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This is what you specifically said, and I quote:
Who exactly is lying here?
I've shown you evidence that he did in fact play in Cameroon, in an organized environment. That is a fact. He had experience playing prior coming to the US. That is a fact. You were wrong and then lied about it, and then had the nerve to accuse me of lying when I pointed this out. You're not alluding to anything in that statement, there is no way anyone can misconstrue "he had literally no experience playing". No shyt he learned to be as good as he is in this country, but that was never at any point a topic of discussion. You even said in your initial response to me that "all his amateur experience has been in the US", which again, is wrong.
Embiid identifies as an international player hence why he's already gone through the process of playing for France. Now, does that mean he's taken the exact path as the likes of Giannis, Jokic and Luka have (internationally)? No. All it means is that when we're talking about who's foreign/international and who's not, Embiid fits the former. It's as simple as that. And it's funny because, even though he became the player he is today largely from being in this country, his foundational framework that shaped his footwork and ability to read the ball actually comes from playing volleyball and soccer at a young age, which are attributes that are synonymous with international players.
You 2022 posters are 10-day contract ass nxggas thinking you can fool folks that have been in the game for a decade.
You’re selecting part of what I said and trying to remove all context. I clarified in the sentence above which you ignored. When he came to the states he had no competitive experience playing . I remember his time in Florida , he was raw and didn’t have any experience playing competitive ball at 16 years old. There’s all types of excerpts of this that I know you’ve googled.
Typically international players will not go to US college because they are playing semipro or pro ball internationally. This is why Tim Duncan and Patrick Ewing and dikembe mutumbo weren’t typically called international players
If your contention is that he picked up a ball and played on an outdoor court in Cameroon than take it. You’re being dishonest and disenguos because you didn’t know wtf you’re talking about .
He never played 1 international game , he was never in an internationally recognized league , etc etc. he is a foreign born player that learned how to play in the US. If you’re want to prove your point show me he stats from Cameroon .
Again show me his stats from Cameron
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
You didn't clarify. Once you realized what you said you tried to cover up by lying (this is what happens when you get carried away, you end up talking out of both sides of your mouth). Saying "he had literally no experience playing", is quite literally you saying he had no experience playing hoops before coming to the US. You even followed up that statement by saying all his amateur play was in this country too.
Both points are 100% inaccurate.
He quite literally played in an organized environment whilst he was in Cameroon, hence his father signing papers for him to join a local team, which I referenced in a previous post.
That is a fact. It's a trivial matter (because it ultimately doesn't mean anything), but it is still a fact.
Again, he's an international player (he's going to play for France). He played organized ball in Cameroon. Once he plays in the Olympics for France are you going to recognize him as an international player, if so, what's the point in digging your heels in over this? You're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about because you didn't even know he played in Cameroon. Stop projecting.
And here come the strawman arguments.
Nobody said he's played an international game, just that he's an international/foreign player. Nobody is saying he didn't primarily learn to play the game in the country. Neither of these points were ever in contention. This thread is about "internationally born" players, which Embiid is classified as. He also classifies as being an international player because he hasn't and won't be playing for Team USA. He also played hoops prior to coming here.
The fact you want stats from over a decade ago from a teenage local league of a third-world country, tells me all I need to know about you.
Why is this not enough for you to acknowledge that you're wrong -
"Joel Embiid is fond of comparing his life to a movie. The story, in his account, begins with a scout discovering him on the streets of Yaoundé, the capital of Cameroon, where Embiid grew up.
.........
In February, Thomas [Embiid's father] signed paperwork allowing Joel to join a local team led by a coach named Guy Moudio. Moudio gave Joel a tape of Hall of Fame center Hakeem Olajuwon to study. He used a medicine ball to build up Joel’s strength. Moudio had to teach Joel some of the game’s more basic skills, but he was impressed with what he saw and how Joel, despite being a novice, seemed to have an innate feel for the game".
- he joined a local team in Cameroon
- he studied tape of Dream
- he developed basketball habits and practiced basic skills
- he showed he had an innate feel for the game.
All of this was before moving to the US.
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
"Joel Embiid is fond of comparing his life to a movie. The story, in his account, begins with a scout discovering him on the streets of Yaoundé, the capital of Cameroon, where Embiid grew up.
.........
In February, Thomas [Embiid's father] signed paperwork allowing Joel to join a local team led by a coach named Guy Moudio. Moudio gave Joel a tape of Hall of Fame center Hakeem Olajuwon to study. He used a medicine ball to build up Joel’s strength. Moudio had to teach Joel some of the game’s more basic skills, but he was impressed with what he saw and how Joel, despite being a novice, seemed to have an innate feel for the game".
- he joined a local team in Cameroon
- he studied tape of Dream
- he developed basketball habits and practiced basic skills
- he showed he had an innate feel for the game.
All of this was before moving to the US.
What were his stats in the Cameroon team?
Showing innate abilities and watching videos doesn’t constitute international experience or competitive experience . If he played competitively as a teen what were his stats?
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
Why do you keep ignoring the fact he played hoops for a local team, after you were adamant that he didn't have any experience playing the game?
What was his stats for this internationally competitor local club ?
And how was he able to get into college with this semi pro experience from this local club?
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
Where are you getting this "internationally competitor local club" and "semi-pro experience" shyt from, Mr. Strawman?
Cameroon is a third world country, how realistic do you think finding stats from over a decade ago of teenage-group play of a local league is? What makes you think the stats were even recorded where someone could access them via the internet? Do you think basketball in Cameroon has their own Basketball reference where you can easily find stats from when players were 15 years old? Why are you having trouble acknowledging the fact he played organized ball before coming here? Why are you having trouble admitting you're wrong? Why are you continuing to juelz?
What was the teams name and what was their record when played with them ?
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
That would be something you'd have to find out from Embiid himself. They don't keep any sort of stats (player or team) from whatever the local league he played in was from over a decade ago.
Are you done embarrassing yourself? Are you ready to admit you're wrong?
staticshock
Veteran
Lmao I don’t give a fukk what these nikkas say. They acting like I’m saying some bench warmer or role player is in the top 10.
Idc what anyone say I’d take a healthy AD & Kawhi over almost anyone.
So you have no stats
You don’t have a record
You don’t even know the team name
By all accounts they were playing on outdoor courts
So when I’m literally stated he had no international competitive experience, which was the context of this conversation and then followed up with he had no experience (again in the context do this thread) I was 100% right.
You are changing goal posts because you were proven wrong over and over again. To say i was alluding to him never picking up a ball or having played pickup is disingenuous to the context we were talking about.
He never played competitive international ball. Period .
His game is 100% US bred - never played competively under international rules
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
And playing on outdoor courts matters because?
What part of Cameroon is a third-world country do you not understand? What resources do you think they would've had to replicate a US system, particularly given the fact it was only a local league for teenagers? How does that remove the element of it being organized/competitive hoops in the context of where he lived? Why do you seem to think it needs to be some AAU-type setup for it to count in the context of this argument?
He played organized ball in Cameroon. That is a fact. No matter how many times you try to force these arbitrary standards where you're constantly moving the goalposts with this "international competitive" bullshyt. The fact you keep asking for these stats tells me that all that stops you from recognizing he did actually have experience is the actual record of them, but you know goddamn well that there is unlikely to be any record of this given the circumstances.
There's minimal record/stats of any basketball during its initial years in the 1800s (and in the early 1900s), does that mean we can claim that those players never had any experience playing the game because there's no record of it happening, or do we use our heads and reach the understanding that because the game was in its infancy and given the limited resources they had at the time we can still come to the conclusion that there were people who played the game in an organized environment.
The same logic applies here.
Except he didn't just play pickup. You just keep on digging that hole don't you?
He played organized ball. Or do you seem to think his father signing papers for him to join a local team was all to play pickup ball? When are you going to acknowledge that fact? When has this discussion ever him playing competitively on an international level? You know that was never a point that was ever debated. You're only stretching it out to that because you know you fukked up and didn't do your proper research. Now, you just wanna lie and bullshyt instead of admitting fault.
And his game is not "100% US bred". He started learning and practicing the game in Cameroon; he played in a controlled 5v5 setup in Cameroon; he used volleyball and soccer (again, where he played in Cameroon) as a foundation to fast-track his skillset. He already had a base before he even stepped foot in this country.
Why does any of this matter though? It is such a trivial thing to debate about, especially when he's gonna be playing for France in 2024, and if I have the misfortune of seeing you around this board, I'm gonna remind you that he's an international-born player (which is the topic of this thread, in case your goal-post moving ass forgot), who's playing on an international team.
, I'm gonna remind you that he's an international-born player (which is the topic of this thread, in case your goal-post moving ass forgot), who's playing on an international team.
okay so what international team has he played for?