Forbes: Falling Illegal Immigration Numbers Confirm No Border Crisis

[theworldismine13]

That article isn't saying a whole lot

Most illegal immigrant come legally and overstaty their visa

The reduction in Mexican crossing the border illegally happened because of the improved Mexican economy and increased enforcement.........and?

I suppose the article is making a case for not building a wall......and that's about it

Trump is an idiot, the wall is neither her nor there, it's just politics

But overall illegal immigration is down because of increased enforcement so the reduction in illegal immigration makes the case that increasing deportations will reduce illegal immigration

 

[Maschine_Man]

The point is that there's no "crisis".

You know, as a result of illegal immigration decreasing.

Are you really this obtuse? :bpgucci:



Hint: They always will. :stephena1:

There cannot be a complete cessation of illegals coming here for a multitude of reasons.

It's called "acceptable losses". If you can't see this, you're naive.



Believe it or not, Nap, that's not what the OP was about. You are aware these two points:

-Illegal immigration negatively affects African-Americans, and
-There is no "border crisis" as conservatives have described

...aren't mutually exclusive, right? :bpgucci:

That being said, it's not really in my Top 5 most pressing issues for the African-American community, no. :kanyebp:

That’s because you don’t live in places like Southern California or Florida where most of the ppl have felt those effects.

The fact that you don’t think a small sized cities population worth of illegal immigrants coming over every year is a problem is just displaying your own personal ignorance and bias.
And that’s JUST from the southern border

 

[Maschine_Man]

You seem to have missed that line, which was the key point there and basically negates anything else you were trying to come at him with.




You don't get the point though - if you mandate a living wage, then undocumented workers CAN'T undercut the wages. Since the employer knows they have to pay a living wage regardless, they have no reason not to hire someone who can work legally, speaks fluent English, has an American education, knows American culture, etc. Employers are willing to deal with the drawbacks of hiring undocumented labor because the lower pay rates justify the other risks and difficulties. You remove those lower pay rates then you kill their motivation for going undocumented.




I'm apparently owning someone I have on ignore whose arguments I can't even see.

How did I miss it when I was the one posted it?
Dude said let’s “hand citizenship freely to every person that shows up...just like Ellis island”.

My post demonstrated that it wasn’t just handed over freely. Ppl were screened and tested. And many of them were denied and separated from their families and sent back home.
over that time almost a quarter million ppl were sent back home. NOT freely given citizenship. And there were almost a quarter million families separated.

Doesn’t really sound much different than now does it?

Nothing was negated and you haven’t “owned” anyone here.

 

[DEAD7]

That being said, it's not really in my Top 5 most pressing issues for the African-American community, no. :kanyebp:

What would those top 5 be?

 

[Maschine_Man]

You seem to have missed that line, which was the key point there and basically negates anything else you were trying to come at him with.




You don't get the point though - if you mandate a living wage, then undocumented workers CAN'T undercut the wages. Since the employer knows they have to pay a living wage regardless, they have no reason not to hire someone who can work legally, speaks fluent English, has an American education, knows American culture, etc. Employers are willing to deal with the drawbacks of hiring undocumented labor because the lower pay rates justify the other risks and difficulties. You remove those lower pay rates then you kill their motivation for going undocumented.

Wait....apparently YOU don’t get the point. Undocumented (or let’s call it for what it is...illegal) workers will still be able to undercut wages because they will be.....ummm...undocumented. Which means that there will be no change to what is currently going on. You think instituting a 15 min wage is going to make all these employers just change their mind about paying all these illegal workers? Lol how naive.

Only when those workers are legal and on the books will they be able to have the rights and privileges of every other worker. Until then they will continue to be used and abused, and paid shytty wages.

You know how you kill the motivation for going undocumented? Stop allowing illegal workers to come in, and stop allowing employers to hire them under the current going rates.

Mandated living wages don’t apply to illegal workers. Once you understand that point.....then let’s carry on.

 

[Black Panther]

That’s because you don’t live in places like Southern California or Florida where most of the ppl have felt those effects.

The fact that you don’t think a small sized cities population worth of illegal immigrants coming over every year is a problem is just displaying your own personal ignorance and bias.
And that’s JUST from the southern border

You don't deserve this response, but let me say a few things, for everyone else's edification.

1. You do realize that both illegal and undocumented immigrants do leave, right? And they do so in large numbers every year?

Nap's disingenuous comparison of illegal immigrants to standing water after a flood aside:

half a million U.S. undocumented residents from Mexico left the undocumented population in 2016 alone, more than three times the number that arrived that year, leading to an overall decrease of nearly 400,000 undocumented residents from Mexico from 2016 to 2017

I think it's safe to say that your personal ignorance is showing, if you didn't realize that three times "a small sized cities population worth of illegal immigrants" leave the undocumented population each year.

2. You live in Canada. What's your stake in this? :bppatrice:

 

[Black Panther]

@∆y = f(∆x) : You're being disingenuous, and only citing potions of the data as it suits your flawed argument. I'll show you how, because you do it in two pretty blatant ways.

I'm supposed to take a reduction in arrivals when theres still tens of thousands of people filtering in monthly???????

Going from 30,000 to 20,000 is a 33% decrease!

As I said above in response to Maschine_Man, it's not just that there are less people coming. Massive numbers of Mexican undocumented residents leave the undocumented population every year.

The article stated that there were three times as many people who left the undocumented population as had arrived in 2016.

Your standing water "argument" is flawed and invalid.

Oh and the article made up bullshyt statistics.

They said this and its completely fukking useless:

As noted here, the number of apprehensions and people deemed inadmissible at ports of entry the first three months of FY 2019 was actually lower than during those same three months in FY 2017. That was the year DHS referred to as “the lowest level of illegal cross-border migration on record.”) (See here and here for data.) The first three months of FY 2019 did see a higher number of apprehensions and inadmissible encounters at ports of entry than during the first three months of FY 2018.

Dude. Look at those three months in the CBP's own chart below:

They legitimately took THREE months out of the whole year then said its lower than those three months of the lowest year on record. So? The year ain't over!

Its a complete farce and no respecting academic or statistician would ever use that argumentation. Thats goddamn malpractice unless you're just interesting in just supporting a narrative that protects illegal immigrants.

This is a very bad case of cherry-picking.

The preceding paragraph to the one you're flailing about here actually explains why they were looking at only the first three months of FY2019.

Context absolutely matters in the passage you cited, and you completely ignored that. Allow me to cite the entire point, instead of just that one paragraph:

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has documented the trend of falling numbers as well. “In FY 2017, CBP [Customs and Border Protection] recorded the lowest level of illegal cross-border migration on record, as measured by apprehensions along the border and inadmissible encounters at U.S. ports of entry,” according to a DHS report released in December 2017. Border Patrol apprehensions along the Southwest border in FY 2018 were the 5th lowest level of illegal entry recorded in the past 46 years.

As noted here, the number of apprehensions and people deemed inadmissible at ports of entry the first three months of FY 2019 was actually lower than during those same three months in FY 2017. That was the year DHS referred to as “the lowest level of illegal cross-border migration on record.”) (See here and here for data.) The first three months of FY 2019 did see a higher number of apprehensions and inadmissible encounters at ports of entry than during the first three months of FY 2018.

I'll summarize what was said: FY2017 saw the lowest level of illegal border crossings on record--with ones at the Southern border the 5th lowest in 46 f*cking years--and it looks like it may be even lower in 2019, judging by the first few months.

There's nothing wrong being said here, and this isn't a "bullsh*t statistic". It's part of a set of data points, and you took it out of the set to scream about it while ignoring the rest.

I swear to god, @Black Panther you need to sit with that chart for some time and come to terms with the fact the CBP just killed your entire argument.

Respect yourself and come at me correctly. Stop using cheap political arguments. LOOK at the source documents.

You're wrong about this shyt.

This is funny.

Even with the sources you cited, you can't get around the fact that:

-Illegal immigration is trending down overall,
-There are more people leaving the undocumented population than arriving per year,
-The majority of illegal immigrants either arrive by air or overstay temporary visas, and
-We're seeing record lows in southern border crossings.

Your responses to the above are "...so?"...except you haven't realized that they make your argument completely crumble into dust.

You.

Have.

Nothing.

 

[the cac mamba]

@ExodusNirvana don't want to say that Coretta Scott King was a shyt-poster, do you?

of course not

because she accurately stated that illegals hurt employment for people that are already here, she was clearly a racist cac :jayfdup:

 

[the cac mamba]

you can't get around the fact that:

-Illegal immigration is trending down overall
-There are more people leaving the undocumented population than arriving per year
-The majority of illegal immigrants either arrive by air or overstay temporary visas
-We're seeing record lows in southern border crossings
.

all true. and unemployment is at its lowest level in a long time :jaymelo: i'm glad for both things

 

[Black Panther]

What would those top 5 be?

-Education reform
-Reparations package for AADOS
-Higher minimum wage
-Encouraging weath-building, home ownership, and property ownership
-Law enforcement and criminal justice reform

No particular order.

 

[Black Panther]

all true. and unemployment is at its lowest level in a long time :jaymelo: i'm glad for both things

...Then what's your argument? :mjlolhairfade:

 

[the cac mamba]

...Then what's your argument? :mjlolhairfade:

illegals and migrants hurt employment opportunities for people that are already here. they should be discouraged from coming here, turned around at the border no matter what they're "claiming", and deported when caught along with their families, if they don't want to split up

issue with any of that? none of it should be controversial

 

[Black Panther]

illegals and migrants hurt employment opportunities for people that are already here. they should be discouraged from coming here, turned around at the border no matter what they're "claiming", and deported when caught along with their families, if they don't want to split up

issue with any of that? none of it should be controversial

What are your feelings about the crises in Honduras, Venezuela, and other Central/South American countries (some of which were brought about by US foreign policy)? Do you agree with Trump's "zero-tolerance" policy?

Because if we're talking about undocumented immigrants in today's terms, we need to respond to these crises in a moral, intelligent manner.

There's a good bit of scaremongering going on regarding immigration. They're not all Mexicans coming to steal jobs and rape white women.

 

[theworldismine13]

@∆y = f(∆x) : You're being disingenuous, and only citing potions of the data as it suits your flawed argument. I'll show you how, because you do it in two pretty blatant ways.



As I said above in response to Maschine_Man, it's not just that there are less people coming. Massive numbers of Mexican undocumented residents leave the undocumented population every year.

The article stated that there were three times as many people who left the undocumented population as had arrived in 2016.

Your standing water "argument" is flawed and invalid.



This is a very bad case of cherry-picking.

The preceding paragraph to the one you're flailing about here actually explains why they were looking at only the first three months of FY2019.

Context absolutely matters in the passage you cited, and you completely ignored that. Allow me to cite the entire point, instead of just that one paragraph:



I'll summarize what was said: FY2017 saw the lowest level of illegal border crossings on record--with ones at the Southern border the 5th lowest in 46 f*cking years--and judging by the first few months of FY2019, it looks to be lower than that this year.

There's nothing wrong being said here, and this isn't a "bullsh*t statistic". It's part of a set of data points, and you took it out of the set to scream about it while ignoring the rest.



This is funny.

Even with the sources you cited, you can't get around the fact that:

-Illegal immigration is trending down overall
-There are more people leaving the undocumented population than arriving per year
-The majority of illegal immigrants either arrive by air or overstay temporary visas
-We're seeing record lows in southern border crossings

Your responses to the above are "...so?"...except you haven't realized that they make your argument completely crumble into dust.

You.

Have.

Nothing.

You are making the case for how increased enforcement and self deportation can solve the issue

 

[the cac mamba]

What are your feelings about the crises in Honduras, Venezuela, and other Central/South American countries (some of which were brought about by US foreign policy)? Do you agree with Trump's "zero-tolerance" policy?

Because if we're talking about undocumented immigrants in today's terms, we need to respond to these crises in a moral, intelligent manner.

There's a good bit of scaremongering going on regarding immigration. They're not all Mexicans coming to steal jobs and rape white women.

america takes a fair amount of blame for some of these conflicts. im tired of meddling in other peoples' affairs, it's disgusting what this country does foreign policy wise and i've never been inconsistent on that stance

at the same time, i refuse to look at these sovereign states as helpless children im sorry, but they're powers in their own right and you cant just blame everything on america. mexico could be and should be roughly equal in status to canada as one of our neighbors, but they need to get their shyt together. and the poor americans who have to compete with migrants for jobs and housing, or are hit by uninsured drivers, have their SS numbers stolen, etc...it's not their fault that government elites fukked up other countries, so i wont sit here and say they deserve to shoulder the negative effects

it's not a perfect world, and you can't save everyone