France : its colonial past, its relation with immigration, and its concept of freedom (ask your Qs)

[Blackking]

Clichy-Sous-Bois is one of the worst city in Ile-de-France and is, above all, in the poorer department of France (Seine-St-Denis) so the situation there is very bad indeed. There are urban regeneration programs (I don't know about Clichy specifically but everywhere there are estates like that, there usually are) to but it takes time to develop.


1. Because France has no colonial empire anymore and the decolonization is over. I say colonial past because nobody refers as ex-colonies as part of France and that's why it is past. In 1960, Algeria was still thought by many as French which is not the case anymore.

2. Yes I currently live here.

So... France isn't still influential in African politics and west african nations aren't still paying colonial fees?

 

[Blackking]

Pas de soucis!

For Black Africans: yes aboslutely, but it has changed imo: younger africans especially those growing up in the cités see Islam more and more as a "counter"-culture to the dominant "White/French" one with which they don not identify and that dscriminates against them. Add to that the War on Terror and the Palestine/Israël conflict and a lot feel this injustice and side with the perceived victim : Islam and the Muslims. Unfortunately, there are hardly any Black (American or otherwise) "causes" or "role-models" to follow, even just at a cultural level (2pac for example). But the Arab/Muslim world has provided that to some.



@Liu Kang answered and I'll add this: the debate about freedom of speech in France is ALWAYS going on, there's always someone who wants something to be forbidden (insulting political and religious figures -Charlie Hebdo was almost exclusively attacked in court by the Far-Right and the Catholics-), denying the Holocaust ever happened, comics going "too far" for some, etc. To my knowledge, amonh historical facts only denying the Holocaust and the Armenian genocide are punished by law, for the reason that Anti-semites and a certain proportion of Turkish (my gf is Turkish) stil deny today they ever happened. For example I never heard of anyone denying slavery happened. But again, it's not only the génocides that are protected by law, insulting a public figure in the media can be protected by the freedom of speech or not, dépends on the prosecution if a complaint is filed. What is forbidden is "inctitment to hatred", which includes good old racism and denying proven historical facts for propaganda purposes.






Again I'll just add to what @Liu said: one very important thing is that the vast majority of workers who immigrated to France (and Belgium) in the 50s and 60s were poor and marginalized in their own countries: we're talking about non-educated people living in the countryside mostly. Unfortunately it is often harder for those people to integrate, especially in such a different country. So many of them would just lay low and try to get by without making too much of a fuss. Now the following générations saw their parents be humble and take shyt, but they weren't gonna do the same because they are born HERE and are more educated. So the resentment is higher. Always understand that it's Young sons of immigrants who are radicalized, the older générations are much more open/easy to go with/don't really care about religion etc.

So talking shyt about everyone except black people and Muslims is punishable? Got it.

 

[humble forever]

Clichy-Sous-Bois is one of the worst city in Ile-de-France and is, above all, in the poorer department of France (Seine-St-Denis) so the situation there is very bad indeed. There are urban regeneration programs (I don't know about Clichy specifically but everywhere there are estates like that, there usually are) to but it takes time to develop.


1. Because France has no colonial empire anymore and the decolonization is over. I say colonial past because nobody refers as ex-colonies as part of France and that's why it is past. In 1960, Algeria was still thought by many as French which is not the case anymore.

2. Yes I currently live here.

you still have that hellish colony in south africa that the poor legionnaires have to live in lol. i read something about it and it sounds like absolute hell

from what i gathered by your post, your people are actually sort of loved and totally accepted as "french" with the whites acknowledging that "french" can have a broad meaning after their empire. and it was much easier to accept your people because you guys shared religions for the most part. I hadn't even really given much thought to the difference between people of the Caribbean and actual africans


Are old Tunisians accepted as french, sort of like how your west indian people are accepted (on a higher level than new muslim immigrants or i guess muslim immigrants at all)? My Moroccan professor was basically a white guy to me but i could tell he had something in him and he wore some crazy clothes (maybe unrelated to his heritage)




i don't understand anything they're saying, but years ago i read a long form article about the legionaries and it was basically them really not liking living in Guiana. they explained that they were basically guards of gold, that they needed to stop locals and others coming across the border from illegally mining gold, but that this mission is actually super hard since their adversaries know the jungle

Police said Sunday that two armed groups clashed a day earlier in Dorlin, an isolated zone known for the illegal extraction of gold. Two other people were wounded.

The gunfight early Saturday came as French President Nicolas Sarkozy, on a two-day visit to the overseas department of France in South America, noted the need to fight illegal gold digging.

Authorities recently estimated annual production of illegal gold in French Guiana at five to 10 tons, while the amount seized by officials was only a dozen kilograms.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/africa/2012/01/22/9-french-guianan-gold-diggers-die-in-gunfight

sounds like a good piece of land to hold on to literally a giant goldmine


the empires never died brehs, they just shrunk (except for spain rip their empire)

 

[50CentStan]

How does 17 people getting killed qualify as chickens coming home to roost after centuries of colonialism?

Pretty sure they make that trade any day.

this thread is about Immigration in France and Euro countries, not 17 people being murdered, smarten up.

 

[50CentStan]

The fact that post was made right after the two previous post is funny af.



But yeah, how many French leaders and historians are on record saying France wouldn't be shyt without exploiting people in Africa????

lol I didnt mean that dudes killing people are their chickens coming home to roost, I meant the massive amount of immigrants, French and England ate off their countries for so long, now its their turn.

 

[Futuristic Eskimo]

this thread is about Immigration in France and Euro countries, not 17 people being murdered, smarten up.

We both know what the catalyst was for this discussion.

I wouldnt characterize immigration into former colonial powers as chickens coming home to roost either anyway

 

[50CentStan]

We both know what the catalyst was for this discussion.

I wouldnt characterize immigration into former colonial powers as chickens coming home to roost either anyway

breh you see when I posted that? read the first post and read my post. It had nothing to do with the murder of some clown cartoonists that had a death wish that was granted. If you cant understand that, then like I said, smarten up.

 

[mbewane]

So talking shyt about everyone except black people and Muslims is punishable? Got it.

What?

 

[Blackking]

What?

Apparently, you can't talk about Jews

 

[mbewane]

Apparently, you can't talk about Jews

Apparently, you understand what you want to understand