Free marketeers/Ron Paul stans/PCTs being wrong on everything since 2008 thread

[DEAD7]

Because they pay their employees like shyt, and they put plenty of other people out of work. Which hurts the economy but fattens Mr. Wal Mart's pockets.

Paying your employees "like sh*t" is an opinion. There is nothing objective about it.

The whole "wal-mart wages are too low" notion, goes hand in hand with why jobs are being outsourced.

Not every job is worth [insert state minimum wage].

Spoiler

The idea of 'Human capital' needs to be taught in schools.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Paying your employees "like sh*t" is an opinion. There is nothing objective about it.

The whole "wal-mart wages are too low" notion, goes hand in hand with why jobs are being outsourced.

Not every job is worth [insert state minimum wage].

Spoiler

The idea of 'Human capital' needs to be taught in schools.

Like shyt isn't an opinion. A full time worker in the richest nation I the world should at least be able to feed himself and pay for his own healthcare. Wal mart employees can not. When a company comes in and replaces quality jobs with like shyt jobs in order to maximize their profit, the economy suffers and that's objective.

 

[DEAD7]

Like shyt isn't an opinion. A full time worker in the richest nation I the world should at least be able to feed himself and pay for his own healthcare. Wal mart employees can not. When a company comes in and replaces quality jobs with like shyt jobs in order to maximize their profit, the economy suffers and that's objective.

None of those things [feeding, clothing, healthcare] are a business's concern to be honest.

Voluntary contracts are after all... voluntary.

But that is neither here nor there, whats really going on is government. Their interference in those markets has priced those things out of reach.

Now you want privately owned business's to compensate for the governments missteps...

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

These guys are myopic idiots that's why. Every decent economist has already predicted the market and the economy to crash again for a variety of reason, from the artificially propped up too big to fail banks, to the impending student loan bubble, to the impending eurozone crisis, to the middle east instability. Its stupid and disgusting of the OP to dismiss all the predictions and news based on his love for Obama's nutsack. It may not happen this year or even the next few years, but that doesn't mean understanding the possibility of it going down soon is "foolish."

As someone who is financially conservative I did extremely well last year with my investments. But even as someone who has made money of this market, I even know its fool hardy to assume "everything is kosher" simply because the stock market is reaching new highs.

The level of ignorance and foolishness on this so called "higher learning" forum is disgusting.

Theres a difference between thinking everything is kosher and acknowledging things are improving, even if they aren't perfect.

We def still have some fundamental issues moving forward, but the apocalypse folks like you were clamoring for with every hint of bad economic news that came out has yet to materialize.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

None of those things [feeding, clothing, healthcare] are a business's concern to be honest.

Voluntary contracts are after all... voluntary.

But that is neither here nor there, whats really going on is government. Their interference in those markets has priced those things out of reach.

Now you want privately owned business's to compensate for the governments missteps...

A strong economy should be the concern for all Americans. But the super rich have figured out that they can fatten their own pockets regardless of the health of the economy.

Big business runs the government most "government interference" raises the profits for these company's. They wouldn't be "compensating for the missteps of the government" they would be sharing the advantages that the government has given them.

For example the new healthcare laws. While they are good for Americans in that more Americans will be able to afford coverage. The big winner here is the healthcare industry, they will be making record profits and middle class americans will still be going broke paying for insurance.

Now what they could do is take the extra money they will be getting and lower the premiums for all their members. What they will do is find a reason to raise prices and profits for their higher ups.

 

[DEAD7]

"We the People" should be upset with government, not private business. Only one of them is beholden to us...

 

[DEAD7]

Big business runs the government most "government interference" raises the profits for these company's. They wouldn't be "compensating for the missteps of the government" they would be sharing the advantages that the government has given them.

Well said, but we should be focusing on righting government, not compensating or "sharing" its missteps.

Spoiler

IMHO

 

[Morph]

Just saying...I remember back on all these libertarians, free marketeers, paranoid conspiracy theorists, Ron Paul stans, and paleoconservatives were boldly predicting complete calamity and utter destruction of the American economy in late 2008 and 2009.

Meta, Gundam, a bunch of other dudes whose names I can't recall. I remember reading stuff about how the stock market would do a death spiral and our standard of living would be reduced to 3rd world status...

Poverty statistics indicate that our country is getting poorer. Also, the rising stock market has mostly benefitted the ultra rich, not the common man. More folks are working past 65 because their retirements are too little to live off of.

There was several comparisons to Zimbabwe....I remember when the Fed announced QE and Gundam made a thread declaring America died that day.

The one comparison regarding QE was to the Weimar Republic. In the 1920s/1930s, the Weimar Republic tried to print its way to prosperity. It failed miserably. QE didn't work for them, it actually made things worse.

Ironically, if we implemented y'alls ideas of no fiscal or monetary stimulus, and massive tax cuts, your Mad Max fantasies probably really would've occurred.

Ron Paul's portfolio has outperformed the stock market during this recovery.

 

[OsO]

Two things.

First, that isnt true, and the big players are as big as they are only because of government.

Monopolies never last...NEVER!

sure there are examples of the government aiding in making the rich even richer, thats the predicament we're in right now. but a totally free market is not going to be ideal with this unscrupulous bunch of corporate gangsters. society would be bled dry of its resources and wealth in a generation.

to do good business you need the enforcement of law, and that will involve the government. one of the highest indicators of economic performance in global economics is the ability of a country to enforce laws, contracts, policies, and protect the individual's rights. all of that means government involvement.

trust me you want the government involved in business. otherwise you, i, and everyone on this board along with 98% of america would be looking like a lamb chop... FOOD!

Second, lets assume it is true. the only way the could maintain their hold is by offering the best product at a price the market could bear... This is not a loss, but a win for consumer.

they'll give you a decent product at an inflated price, and people will pay it. it might even be a quality product. but even under this assumption, consumer satisfaction is not the only economic factor that matters

Take Wal-Mart, they offer consumers a variety of products at the lowest possible price, but because they are huge and price smaller stores out, it is seen as a bad thing... WHY? The consumer is winning! Where is the bad/evil at?

the consumer wins in the short term, but the country the consumer lives in LOSES in the LONG RUN.

allowing that product to be manufactured overseas takes the economic value away from our economy and transfers it to another country, and also to the corporation that sold the product at a 10,000,000,000% markup.

bottom line: a small fraction of society is getting very rich... and inherently there's nothing wrong with that. the problem is, a small fraction of society is getting very rich TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE REST OF SOCIETY, and even to the detriment of the earth itself.

think about it.

 

[OsO]

Theres a difference between thinking everything is kosher and acknowledging things are improving, even if they aren't perfect.

you think economic conditions in america are improving?

 

[DrunkerThanAMotherfucker]

I always tell the extreme free-marketeers to move to Somalia.

They don't have a government there.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

you think economic conditions in america are improving?

We are better off today than we were in 2009. Again not saying things are perfect or even close, but we aren't losing 500K-1M jobs a month anymore. The economy isn't in a deflationary spiral. We aren't bailing companies out to keep the economy from collapsing (at least in the open). If people can't at least acknowledge that by many metrics things are better today than they were 4-5 years ago they are not operating in reality.

 

[OsO]

We are better off today than we were in 2009. Again not saying things are perfect or even close, but we aren't losing 500K-1M jobs a month anymore. The economy isn't in a deflationary spiral. We aren't bailing companies out to keep the economy from collapsing (at least in the open). If people can't at least acknowledge that by many metrics things are better today than they were 4-5 years ago they are not operating in reality.

thats a matter of opinion and how one measures success in the economy.

i view corruption within the government as a huge indicator of our economic status. things like job creation/destruction always go in cycles, depending a lot on the actions (or non-action) of the government.

government mismanagement of economic and monetary policy also means no matter how many jobs are being created or saved, that eventually we have to feel the full effects of the financial mismanagement. in our current scenario, and in simplest terms we cannot continue to spend money to the degree we have been and in the manner we have been, without serious fiscal consequences.

but we have not checked the power of the banks and corporations, and we have not held the government accountable for their mismanagement, so imo, at best, we are in the same relative situation as before.

 

[superunknown23]

I always tell the extreme free-marketeers to move to Somalia.

They don't have a government there.

 

[88m3]

Twimy avoiding this thread like the plague