FreePeopleofColor USA: Difference in identity between the North/South and how it relates to Liberia

[Swirv]

The American ones in the USA lived through Jim Crow/1 Drop Rule; the ones who went to Liberia didn't which is exactly why when one speaks of the mulattos (FPC) who went to Liberia in that pre-Civil war time period, it's important to highlight the differences in racial identification between the two periods. It would easily explain why things played out the way they did!


When the mulattos went to LIberia an imported a plantation-based caste system; this is what mulattos were facing/morphing into in the USA

The elite were mulattos; and yes, so were most of the leaders before the late(r) 1800s. This has been confirmed by everyone who went to Liberia in those early years/decades, even as late at the 1860s

Dude: I'm not just talking politics/presidency, mulattos ran everything from the aforementioned govt to


education (Blyden and Crummell both called out the mulatto faction over this)

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commerce

because the narrative of africans being enslaved & mistreated by "American Blacks" originated in this period of mulatto domination before dark skinned Americos gained control

See above post about the "narrative"

Garretson Gibson, does this man look like a « mulatto »?

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Garretson Gibson, does this man look like a « mulatto »?

He's from the dark skinned True Whigs

The True Whig Party (TWP), also known as the Liberian Whig Party (LWP), is the oldest political party in Liberia and one of the oldest parties in Africa and the world. Founded in 1869 by primarily darker-skinned Americo-Liberians in rural areas, its historic rival was the Republican Party.

The party first came to power after Edward James Roye won the 1869 Liberian general election and was sworn in as president the following year. The TWP's historic opponent was the Republican Party. The Republican Party had tended to be supported by Americo-Liberians of mixed African and European ancestry while darker skinned Americo-Liberians initially rallied around the TWP,[7] however as the Republican Party began to decline in influence most Americo-Liberians transferred their support to the TWP.

 

[Swirv]

He's from the dark skinned True Whigs

Breh, your sources are conflicting. In the post I quoted, the 5th document states that Mr. Gibson was a ‘mulatto’ and he was not. And then you say he was apart of the ‘dark skinned’ True Whig party.

From what I know about Liberia it was not structured on any caste system during the government’s early beginnings. Congo ppl thought they knew better than indigenous folks and limited positions of power to the former.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Breh, your sources are conflicting. In the post I quoted, the 5th document states that Mr. Gibson was a ‘mulatto’ and he was not. And then you say he was apart of the ‘dark skinned’ True Whig party.

It was a different Gibson (from an earlier period than the Gibson you posted) that was referenced in the 5th document (1860s):

Joseph Gibson (1823-1886) was an Americo-Liberian politician born in the United States.

Gibson was born in 1823 as a free black resident of Talbot County, Maryland. Gibson and several other family members emigrated to West Africa in 1835 under the auspices of the Maryland State Colonization Society. Gibson was an active leader in the community and became a leader in the Maryland Colony, which eventually achieved independence. Gibson served on the nine-person constitutional committee of The Independent State of Maryland in Liberia which based the constitution off of those of the United States and the U.S. state of Maryland. In June 1854, Gibson was appointed to the country's senate. However, the independent state feared attacks from the indigenous residents of the area and, in 1857, voted to join the independent Republic of Liberia.

Gibson was named the first superintendent of Maryland County, Liberia.[1] From January 6, 1868, to January 3, 1870, Gibson served was the Vice President of Liberia under President James Spriggs Payne. He was a member of the Republican Party.

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In 5th document they even mentioned Payne and Marshall which is what gives away what era they were in.....circa 1850s-1860s Marshall and Payne (bishop) were white



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The Payne below is who Joseph Gibson came up under around the same time period

James Spriggs Payne (December 19, 1819 – January 31, 1882) served as the fourth and eighth President of Liberia, from 1868 to 1870 and from 1876 to 1878.[1] He was the last president to belong to the Republican Party.

Payne was born in Richmond, Virginia, in 1819 to free mixed-race parents. Payne grew up in a deeply religious Methodist family and was a devout Christian.[2] His father, David M. Payne, was a Methodist minister and was ordained a deacon by the Virginia Conference in 1824.[3] Payne was noted for having a rather light complexion, with some estimates claiming that he was indeed an octoroon—having seven-eights European ancestry and one-eighth African ancestry. When Payne was ten years old, his family emigrated to Liberia on the ship The Harriet, the same ship as Joseph Jenkins Roberts, Liberia's future first president, under the auspices of the American Colonization Society.[4]

Aside from religion, the young Payne showed interest in politics and economics. He later became a successful writer in these areas.[2] As an adult, he was appointed by the Liberian government to work to complete the severance of Liberia's ties to the American Colonization Society.[2]

 

[Swirv]

It was a different Gibson (from an earlier period than the Gibson you posted) that was referenced in the 5th document:

Joseph Gibson (1823-1886) was an Americo-Liberian politician born in the United States.

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In 5th document they even mentioned Payne and Marshall which is what gives away what era they were in:

James Spriggs Payne (December 19, 1819 – January 31, 1882) served as the fourth and eighth President of Liberia, from 1868 to 1870 and from 1876 to 1878.[1] He was the last president to belong to the Republican Party.

Pardon my mix up, but I know for a fact that the Gibsons were not a ‘mulatto’ family.


These are a few of the early Liberian Presidents and cabinet members. This mulatto based government that you are claiming did not exist.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Pardon my mix up, but I know for a fact that the Gibsons were not a ‘mulatto’ family.

top row: 2 afro-euros

2nd row: 1 or 2 of them

3rd: 5 of them

4th: at least 2

These are a few of the early Liberian Presidents and cabinet members. This mulatto based government that you are claiming did not exist.

apparently, mulattos were found in prominent roles even outside of govt/politics from first hand accounts of the time period

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The John Day mentioned above was the brother of Thomas Day

John Day, older brother to the famous cabinetmaker, Thomas Day, emigrated to Liberia in 1830 as a participant in the American Colonization Movement. As a free person of color, he lived and worked in south side Virginia and Milton, North Carolina until his departure for Africa. In 1845, John Day was appointed superintendent of Liberian missions by the Foreign Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention, a post he held until his death in 1859. In addition to his job as missionary, he was a signer of the Declaration of Independence of the Republic of Liberia in 1847 and served as the second Supreme Court Justice of the country. Between the years 1846 and 1859, John Day wrote over one hundred letters to the secretary of the foreign mission board. This program will examine the content of some of these letters as they relate to Day’s theology, his views of race and slavery, the Liberian people and their culture, the political and social history of the early settlers and the life and role of the missionary.

https://www.geni.com/people/Chief-Justice-John-Day-Jr/6000000033498779011

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Louis Sheridan was fair skinned:

Louis Sheridan, farmer, free black merchant, and Liberian official, was probably the Louis Sheridan mentioned in the 1800 will of Joseph R. Gautier (d. 15 May 1807), Elizabethtown merchant, as the son of Nancy Sheridan, "my emancipated black woman" to whom he left "my plantation at the Marsh." Louis obtained a good education and engaged in extensive mercantile operations. Although he was a mulatto with a fair complexion, he was recorded as white in the Bladen County censuses for 1810, 1820, and 1830

Sheridan, Louis | NCpedia

 

[invalid]

Why are folks triggered over this? I’ve always thought the Liberian narrative was ex-slaves who had just gained their freedom imposing plantation style dynamics within the newly formed government resulting in the disenfranchisement of the natives.

The thread reveal highlights the nuances between the Congo settlers and places the blame on the rightful parties, not the ex-slaves.

It’s like you all want the dark skin ex-slaves to take heat???

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Why are folks triggered over this?

I suspect that some people want to be able to use this as their go-to example of what they deem as an example of Aframs doing Africans wrong; and as you can see, many people who are on that side of the argument run with it w/o ever putting the situation in its proper context. Most of those people don't know how the nuances of race amongst afro-descendants in the USA played out before the Civil War and how it changed, leading into/after Reconstruction

I’ve always thought the Liberian narrative was ex-slaves who had just gained their freedom imposing plantation style dynamics within the newly formed government resulting in the disenfranchisement of the natives.

Exactly! This has always been the narrative but what many don't realize is that this what carried out by a minority who come from the previously FPCs (free people) and NOT the liberated slaves from the USA (freed people)

The thread reveal highlights the nuances between the Congo settlers and places the blame on the rightful parties, not the ex-slaves.

It’s like you all want the dark skin ex-slaves to take heat???

Their agenda only works if they can also blame the dark skinned americos but we all know/have first hand accounts from the mullato dominated era that these claims of mistreatment of the natives, originated. I ran across a colored ambrotype of jenkins on a liberian facebook, that I've never seen before

it's pretty easy to see why someone with THAT phenotype in that ERA was on some to dark skinned americos and obviously, native Africans. The light skinned ones associated dark skin with being a slave; therefore, they thought dark skinned people should have a slave-like status, while they (mullatos) had the real power because this was what THEY knew from the USA plantation dynamic

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Jenkins was an octaroon from Virginia, home of the oldest mulattos in the USA. The records of light skinned FPCs in Virginia getting their "race" changed for legal "whiteness"

and how they thought, is well documented

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light skinned cats were even willingly joining the confederate side during the Civil War like their New Orleans counterparts, did