Gary Payton: "Lebron Wouldn't be as good in our era"

[filial_piety]

I don't think you watched MJ in the 80's.

I'm pretty much done with this thread though because to be honest it was really a dumb statement made by a guy with a rep as the GOAT trash talker and who is desperately trying to stay relevant. Therefore agreeing with him is just...

LeBron has the skills to play 1-4. He's too big, too strong, too fast and too skilled to be stopped in any generation. That's a fact. Especially when you're naming guys who are 20 pounds lighter than him as "enforcers".

It's really, really ridiculous and you all should just stop.

GP was a major trash talker, true, but they all were. The harsh trash talking was just a psychology of the game. And I think he actually made a good point. I'll say it again, I think it would have been much more difficult for LBJ to do what he does today in the 90s. A lot of those guys were far more aggressive in the paint. It was like royal rumble in there. Plus the crop of centers back then were a major obstacle.

LBJ fans can say what they want--but I just don't see him bowling his way in the paint, getting shouldered by Mason, clothe-lined by Oakley and still catching the And-1 over Ewing (as an example). I also don't see him doing this against the 90s Magic, Rockets, Bulls, Hornets or Spurs game in and game out. The defensive challenges were just higher back then. Would he be the best player on the floor? Maybe and Probably (exceptions being MJ and Shaq of course).Dominant? No A. High quality caliber forward? Yes. But I don't think we'd see the "obvious MVP" that we see today, nor do I believe he would have a ring. From your scope and viewpoint, you illustrate this as if you were talking about a 1 on 1 game. I'm looking at the team dynamics that he would have faced and the fact that there were several teams that would have posed this challenge to him today.

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

GP was a major trash talker, true, but they all were. The harsh trash talking was just a psychology of the game. And I think he actually made a good point. I'll say it again, I think it would have been much more difficult for LBJ to do what he does today in the 90s. A lot of those guys were far more aggressive in the paint. It was like royal rumble in there. Plus the crop of centers back then were a major obstacle.

LBJ fans can say what they want--but I just don't see him bowling his way in the paint, getting shouldered by Mason, clothe-lined by Oakley and still catching the And-1 over Ewing (as an example). I also don't see him doing this against the 90s Magic, Rockets, Bulls, Hornets or Spurs game in and game out. The defensive challenges were just higher back then. Would he be the best player on the floor? Maybe and Probably (exceptions being MJ and Shaq of course).Dominant? No A. High quality caliber forward? Yes. But I don't think we'd see the "obvious MVP" that we see today, nor do I believe he would have a ring. From your scope and viewpoint, you illustrate this as if you were talking about a 1 on 1 game. I'm looking at the team dynamics that he would have faced and the fact that there were several teams that would have posed this challenge to him today.

This is getting beyond ridiculous. You're speculating on rings when there has been no mention of who else would be on his team.

Your whole argument was put to rest the day LeBron stepped on the scale. He's too fukking big. If LeBron couldn't have success than no wing player would have success and that's just retarded. Sorry.

The Pistons hit Jordan and he didn't break but a man twice Jordan's size would? That just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. None.

 

[filial_piety]

This is getting beyond ridiculous. You're speculating on rings when there has been no mention of who else would be on his team.

Your whole argument was put to rest the day LeBron stepped on the scale. He's too fukking big. If LeBron couldn't have success than no wing player would have success and that's just retarded. Sorry.

The Pistons hit Jordan and he didn't break but a man twice Jordan's size would? That just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. None.

Sorry, I just don't agree with anything that you're saying. It's all speculation whether you state your opinion on the matter or I do.

LBJ is big, he's fast, but IMO he lacks technique and finess comparable to MJ, Kobe, DWilkens and a host of other players. Like I said back in the 90s, I think there were certain players that would have played him far more aggressively and better in the paint, plus the added challenge at the center position would have made LBJ's job much more difficult.

You keep bringing up Jordan as if he and LBJ were/are the same type of player. They are NOT. Jordan is far more versatile, manipulative and exploitive in how he adjusts to the defense and his offensive play. His game was never predictable and linear nor was it ever purely based on his weight, height or sheer speed. There were plenty of players back then who were taller, stronger and faster than he was, but they still were not BETTER.

I for the life of me can't see where some of you get this inkling that LBJ would just fly and knock over everyone back then just as he does today. I don't know how anyone who has watched a second of NBA in the 90s can honestly believe that he would have just as easy of a challenge going up against a young Shaq, David Robinson, Mutumbo, Ewing, Olajuwan, Morning etc etc in the paint than he does today.

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

Sorry, I just don't agree with anything that you're saying. It's all speculation whether you state your opinion on the matter or I do.

LBJ is big, he's fast, but IMO he lacks technique and finess comparable to MJ, Kobe, DWilkens and a host of other players. Like I said back in the 90s, I think there were certain players that would have played him far more aggressively and better in the paint, plus the added challenge at the center position would have made LBJ's job much more difficult.

You keep bringing up Jordan as if he and LBJ were/are the same type of player. They are NOT. Jordan is far more versatile, manipulative and exploitive in how he adjusts to the defense and his offensive play. His game was never predictable and linear nor was it ever purely based on his weight, height or sheer speed. There were plenty of players back then who were taller, stronger and faster than he was, but they still were not BETTER.

I for the life of me can't see where some of you get this inkling that LBJ would just fly and knock over everyone back then just as he does today. I don't know how anyone who has watched a second of NBA in the 90s can honestly believe that he would have just as easy of a challenge going up against a young Shaq, David Robinson, Mutumbo, Ewing, Olajuwan, Morning etc etc in the paint than he does today.

But how can you talk about rings when his teammates haven't been identified? What if he was on the Spurs and replaced Sean Elliot? You don't think he would have a ring? What if he played alongside Mike and replaced Pippen? He wouldn't have any rings?

That statement is 1000x more ridiculous than Gary's ridiculous statement which is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard by itself.



You're also being ridiculous in your analysis of LeBron. All he does is bowl people over? You sound like those idiots who used to say all Shaq could do is dunk.

I also don't think you saw Jordan play in the 80's because he wasn't doing acrobatics in the air like you're saying. He was straight dunking on people! Anybody! He made that nice layup in the 91 Finals when he switched hands in mid air but young Jordan would have just used his athleticism to elevate and posterize whoever was there. That's what Mike did.

I can't really talk to you because I believe what you're saying is just absurd with no basis whatsoever. If LeBron couldn't play wing in the 90's than no one could. Period.





Just answer this one question: Do you think Dominique Wilkins was better than LeBron James?

 

[J-Fire]

hmmmm.

shaq played in the 90s and 2000s. shaq was nice in the 90's....but he had to wait for less physically gifted players like the dream to retire (dream had too much skill). Shaq had more skill IMO in the 90s and was able to run the floor better....shaq put on fat and waited for centers to get old and just put a body on n!ggas. REMEMBER....post defenders could push for leverage with the arm bar back in the day.

with that said lebron would have done his thing....but he wouldn't be seeing jordan.
charles barkely was a freak athlete IMO...but he couldn't eclipse jordan. having someone put an arm bar or lean on you wears you out....i think lebron would be skinner to compensate for needing more stamina or put on even more weight to handle the contact, but end up slower. People complain about heavy tablet computers...imagine a man pushing on you for 2hrs...gonna fatigue you.

lebron wouldn't have bosh at center stretching the big man out the paint and you couldnt have bosh at center because he would be abused in the post by ewing, zo, shaq, robinson, hakeem, etc. and be a huge defensive liability that would require a hard double team and leave shooters open. WHY DIDN'T THE 90'S BULLS TAKE OUT LUC LONGELY AND PUT A SHOOTER AT CENTER?!?!.....hmmmmmm.

NBA handchecking explained (Michael Jordan vs handchecking) - YouTube

so we ignore the video? Hand checking slowed people down. It's like jamming a WR at the line so he can't get to full speed/get open in time. DID yall see the off the ball defense on jordan?!?! getting a hand on a man makes a difference.


and with that said bron would be able to do his thang on defense.

 

[J-Fire]

Jordan dropped 41 in 2003 when he was 39/40yrs old...... you think he would have a problem in 2013? they got rid of handcheck yr bron came into the game, right?

 

[23Barrettcity]

Defensive schemes are better now than they ever were.

The players in this era are stronger, quicker, faster, bigger and more athletic.

Lebron would dominate in any era. Old school players love to say their era was better. Which we all know is BS. Most of the players from the 70's and 80's wouldn't even make it in today's league.

So you don't think a more physical defense would hurt Lebron at all ? I think it would have some effect I doubt he'd be getting to the basket at will and with his ft shooting and jump shot but its a hypothetical so no one is wrong I guess

 

[Luke Cage]

I like how some peoples arguments are basically along the lines of." well jordan could do it so that means Lebron would be able to do it too."


I'm a heat fan but even i don't stan lebron like that. Jordan is capable of doing things that nobody else can do period. Lebron has yet to reach that level of greatness. but he might.

 

[deezmcnuts]

none of these claims are fact, people take opinion as fact too much

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

I like how some peoples arguments are basically along the lines of." well jordan could do it so that means Lebron would be able to do it too."


I'm a heat fan but even i don't stan lebron like that. Jordan is capable of doing things that nobody else can do period. Lebron has yet to reach that level of greatness. but he might.

When the argument is "the 90's were too physical" then that's a perfect retort. How could it be too physical for the one of the most physically dominant players ever? And it's not like LeBron isn't one of the most talented players ever either when he's doing things at Karl Malone's size that Malone, a HOFer and all time great, couldn't dream of doing.

There really is no rationale to support such an asinine claim.

LeBron couldn't play in that era? Give me 1 legit reason. Just 1.

 

[Luke Cage]

When the argument is "the 90's were too physical" then that's a perfect retort. How could it be too physical for the one of the most physically dominant players ever? And it's not like LeBron isn't one of the most talented players ever either when he's doing things at Karl Malone's size that Malone, a HOFer and all time great, couldn't dream of doing.

There really is no rationale to support such an asinine claim.

LeBron couldn't play in that era? Give me 1 legit reason. Just 1.

shaq was the most physically dominant player of all time and got swept in the 90's and turned around and won three back to back in 00s. Horrible argument you just made.

 

[havoc]

Lebron wouldn't have a problem scoring in the 90s. He is too strong and fast to be stop.

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

shaq was the most physically dominant player of all time and got swept in the 90's and turned around and won three back to back in 00s. Horrible argument you just made.

He got swept but he was still dominating the league.

And he finished with 4 fukking rings. Are you kidding me? That's what I'm saying these arguments make absolutely no sense at all.

Now even Shaq couldn't play in the 90's either when we saw him dominate in the 90's? Unbelievable.

 

[Luke Cage]

He got swept but he was still dominating the league.

And he finished with 4 fukking rings. Are you kidding me? That's what I'm saying these arguments make absolutely no sense at all.

Now even Shaq couldn't play in the 90's either when we saw him dominate in the 90's? Unbelievable.

do you understand what you are typing? he won in the 00s all 4 of those rings.

in the 90s he was a beast but he even admits to getting shytted on by Hakeem. dont try to rewrite history.
The fact is it is easier for lebron now than it would be in the 90s. the extent of it we will never know but its easy to surmise that he'd have a much harder time.

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

do you understand what you are typing? he won in the 00s all 4 of those rings.

in the 90s he was a beast but he even admits to getting shytted on by Hakeem. dont try to rewrite history.
The fact is it is easier for lebron now than it would be in the 90s. the extent of it we will never know but its easy to surmise that he'd have a much harder time.

Do you understand Shaq was starting in the All-Star game as a rookie in 1993 over Patrick Ewing? Do you understand he won a conference title in 95? Do you understand he was averaging 29 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks per game throughout the 90's?

I would call that dominating but he didn't win a ring so I guess in reality he was trash. In fact, he was trash up until Monday, June 19, 2000 when he won his first ring. Since obviously you ain't shyt unless you win a ring.



FOH